Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Freind on December 30, 2025, 06:22:31 PM
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There is a dogma: priests of the Catholic Church confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist and it is the True Body and Blood of Christ Himself
There is a fact as certain as the dogma: My priest confects the Sacrament of the Eucharist and it is the True Body and Blood of Christ Himself
The second is not dogma, but it is as certain as dogma.
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What? This has nothing to do with SVism.
Second proposition is only morally certain, not dogmatically. Could be that your priest isn't valid for one reason or another.
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What? This has nothing to do with SVism.
Second proposition is only morally certain, not dogmatically. Could be that your priest isn't valid for one reason or another.
Yes, but absolute moral certitude. For practical purposes of faith, because we offer adoration to what looks like bread but we know is not (hypothetical notwithstanding).
We also know that the men commonly claiming to be true popes cannot be so, because the Church could not violate Mortalium Animos to the universal Church in all Her organs of the magisterium.
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Yes, but absolute moral certitude. For practical purposes of faith, because we offer adoration to what looks like bread but we know is not (hypothetical notwithstanding).
We also know that the men commonly claiming to be true popes cannot be so, because the Church could not violate Mortalium Animos to the universal Church in all Her organs of the magisterium.
What is the definition of "absolute moral certitude"?
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What is the definition of "absolute moral certitude"?
"Our certainty regarding the validity of a sacrament in a particular case is not, to be sure, that of evidence [i.e., metaphysical or physical certitude], but neither is it merely moral [certitude]; it is truly and properly the certitude of divine faith."
- Billot
It's not dogma itself, but it is a dogmatic fact.
“A dogmatic fact is a merely historical fact, which however is so connected with revealed doctrine that its determination is necessary for the complete guarding of the deposit of faith.”
- Sacrae Theologiae Summa by the Jesuit Fathers of Spain (1940's to 1950's)
This is why saying "Leo is not a true pope" is a dogmatic fact, not a dogma.
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There's no such thing as absolute moral certitude, as the two terms are contraries.
Moral certitude refers to certitude beyond a reasonable doubt ... whereas absolute certitude refers to there being no doubt possible.
While extremely unlikely, it's possible that your priests was not validly baptized ... cf. the infamous docuмent de presbytero non baptizato or that the bishop who ordained him botched the ordination Rite, etc.
Only moral certitude is possible regarding the validity of any given attempt to offer the Mass.
And you also clearly have no clue about what dogmatic fact means.
So you're absolutely and dogmatically certain, certain with the certainty of faith ... that your priest didn't botch the essential form of the consecration or that the bishop didn't botch his ordination or that his parish priest didn't botch his Baptism? No absolute or "dogmatic" certitude can ever be had about matters such as those which are within the realm of "absolute" possibility.
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Not sure where you found that Billot quote or whether you ripped it out of context, but these quotes from Billot contradict your point. You just have to ask any priest with a modicuм of training scholastic theology that this is in fact the case.
Billot (two separate quotes from his De Sacramentis):
It is true that we cannot be certain with the certainty of faith — that is, with the certainty with which we believe the being of God or the articles of the creed — that this or that priest has been validly ordained, or this or that Sacrament has been validly administered; but we are certain, with the certainty of faith, that priests and Sacraments are Christ’s institution; and moreover we may be morally certain that in any indefinite number of instances there was an intention to do what the Church does….
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…though we cannot have absolute certainty about the validity of any particular sacrament, whenever there is no appearance of simulation on the part of the minister, the validity of the sacrament is sufficiently certain
First quote rejects dogmatic certainty, the second rejects absolute certainty.