Caminus believes that the VII Council and the post-VII Popes have used ambiguity to delude the masses but without ever teaching explicit heresies.

Okay, let's assume hypothetically that's true, although it's not what I believe.

What is the point of separating from a Church that is still the true Church because of some errors and/or ambiguity? If you are wise to the ambiguity, then you can just continue to go to your local parish church and tune it out.  

I am getting prepared to go back to sedevacantist chapel now that I'm thinking that NFP may be an error and not a heresy.  I am going to sit there in the same room as a priest and a bunch of faithful who believe in what I think ( rightly or wrongly ) is a scandalous doctrine.  I'm not sure that NFP is an error, but simply that it "may be" an error -- that it has the benefit of the doubt -- is enough to bring me back, since I'm only obligated to avoid Mass if someone is such an obvious heretic that they couldn't be excused in a court of law.  I once thought NFP was an obvious heresy.

You people in SSPX are more extremist than I am.  You have broken away from what you consider to be the true Catholic Church based on teachings that you don't think are heresies, and that may not even be errors, but are mere ambiguities!  When you think about it, my little ironic thesis that you are actually extremists is not so tongue-in-cheek as it might appear.  

Yes, I realize that not everyone in SSPX shares Caminus' outlook.  But all of you, by the very nature of your position, do tend to protect VII from charges of heresy, for the obvious reason that, if you knew they had taught heresy, you would have to be sedevacantist, which for some reason you find a daunting or intimidating prospect.  One would think you'd be glad to escape from this "ambiguous" Judaizing safehouse of pedophiles.  

Because of the scandals that are now at critical mass, on Angelqueen the SSPX faction find themselves actually defending the "Pope" against the secular media.  Behold the fruits of the SSPX position, defending the indefensible in the name of a legalism ( that VII didn't teach heresies, which is not even true, and the post-VII Popes have also taught heresies such as the Joint Declaration on Justification ).

Today [ I wrote this on Good Friday 2010 -- R76 ] you have Ratzinger's in-house preacher comparing the beleaguered scandal-ridden so-called Catholic Church to the poor, persecuted Jєωs, and it didn't take long for the Jєωs to leap in and say "Don't compare us to these freaks!"  Oh yes, make no mistake, this was a new crucifixion planned for Good Friday, Jєωs shining their haloes, batting their eyelashes and saying "DON'T COMPARE US TO CATHOLICS!"  Free Barabbas!  Dark is light and light is dark; up is down and down is up.  Many confused people in today's world would rather be Jєωιѕн than Catholic, looking at this morass, and all of you who are throwing your weight behind this fake Church with its fake Pope, well, I won't say you're responsible for their lack of discernment, their inability to separate the truth of Christ and His Church from its members, but I will say that I don't envy your position, having to defend the indefensible.

Converts will dwindle out into near-nothingness if this continues, vocations will disappear, if they haven't already, "monasteries" and "convents" full of pro-abortion feminist witches will even disappear.  What sinking Titanic will SSPX hook their dinghy to then?  Will they be in the wasteland saying "The Pope is still Pope!  The Emperor has a shiny new wardrobe!"


I IMPLORE THE MEMBERS OF THE SSPX TO SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL:[/color]

If VII taught heresies -- be sedevacantist

If it taught errors -- you should still be a sedevacantist because no Council convoked by a true Pope can teach errors

But by your own logic -- you should remain with the Vatican II Church.

Are you trying to avoid other Catholics, to separate from them, because they believe in ambiguities or errors?  Then expect more charges of "schism."  I know no one in SSPX has clear schismatic intent, but actually a schismatic attitude is part and parcel of your very position.  It comes with the territory.  If you really look honestly at this post, you will see what I'm talking about.  I'm not trying to be inflammatory and am simply making an observation.  

I'll just say that your stance is illogical.  No matter how you look at it, there is no reason for the SSPX now that VII provides Latin Masses ( since SSPX at its best was really all about the Mass, keeping the Tridentine Rite alive ).  It literally has no purpose to exist anymore except to make the Latin Mass more available depending on where you live.  

I know you will say that its purpose is to negotiate with Rome, but you don't need to separate from other Catholics while that is being done.  Besides, that is not a purpose, because you can't negotiate to change a teaching of the true Church -- the Church can't err on faith and morals and then be corrected later.  Caminus really understands all this which is why he is very careful to say that VII only taught ambiguities.  But that begs the question about why there is an SSPX at all.

Really, the purpose of the SSPX is to keep the traditionalists from revolting wholescale against Rome, to keep them sweet and docile while VII does some more damage.  The crooks are buying time for themselves, time that I think we all know is just about over.

Raoul,

I must say that although I'm not a Sede I do admire your intense efforts to research and seek out the Truth carefully before making decisions so that you are consistent.

I think there is an important point that is missing here. There is a distinction between the official docuмents of VCII and official rules from Rome and the everyday experience of the Faith in the dioceses.

Rome would most likely agree that a vast number of parishes and dioceses are abysmal. JPII even claimed Europe was in silent apostasy! Problem is they are tied to the Council and refuse to admit it caused the problem.

The Pope, although he genuinely and privately holds to wrong headed philosophies on merging the world and Church without losing truth, and the official docuмents of VCII, though riddled with ambiguous landmines, are both able to be worked with since they refuse to infallibly bind the Church to error.

The diocesan reality in many places however, is indeed the sort of Frankenchurch the Sedes describe and thus Society faithful stay away from it to avoid being infected. There heresy and sacrilege reign under modernist clergy while Rome looks the other way out of cowardice.

That's my take. There are two conciliar Churches. The Vatican and the Pope with their Latin NO with incense still adhering to defined dogmas although stuck to modern erroneous philosophies evident in their policy decisions. We can work with them although it won't be easy.

Then you have your Mahony diocese with the ICEL rock Masses, ballerinas with incense, glass vessels, and outright heresy. We can't work with them and, in fact, need to flee for our souls.

Anyway, that's my take.

In regards to the previous main post,

         Sedevacantism is the only true religion for it teaches what the original Roman Catholic Church taught. The Roman Catholic Church is the only church for it was founded by Peter the Apostle who later became the Pontiff if Rome and was crucified by Nero the Roman Emperor for whom our Monarch is descended from. Peter the Pontiff of Rome used Jesus' teachings to lay down the foundation of the Roman Catholic Religion but it was terribly destroyed by the previous anti-Popes, the ones that destroyed the Latin Mass, the most beautiful moments in the traditional mass. They destroyed all the original Catholic dogmas and practices. It was even prophesied by past Popes and Saints showing that the Roman Catholic Church as we know it is gone until Pontiff Augustine reclaims the Throne of Peter. But, for now it is vacant. Sedevacantism comes from two latin words, sede and vacante. And when together they mean "while the throne of Peter is vacant". This is the true religion and anyone against it is ex-communicated from the church and is labeled heretical and schismatic.

Issued by His Supreme Royal Majesty

Is Pope Augustine from the Siri line?
If so, Cardinal Siri accepted all the post vatican 2 changes.

In Regards to the following replies above,

Pope Augustine is alive and well, this is the Knights of the Castilian Court, the Organization created by his Great Monarch. But, not to be mistaken for Pierre, Pope Augustine received word from God stating that Pierre was not the Monarch and dis-owned him. He was told his name to be Miguel and soon after a claimer of the Monarchy came and his name was Miguel. I have posted some reasons why Pierre is an anti-Monarch on another post that you may find on this profile. Pierre at the present time is a Jєωιѕн Apostate and Miguel, The Monarch, has been told by God that he shall never convert. More farse rumors have been circulating upon this forum so he has ent us, the Knights of the Castilian Royal Court, to prove them wrong and false. Our website is www.theapostolicseeofgod.co.cc. To email the MONARCH directly use this adress>>> theapostolicseeofgod.gmail.com