Author Topic: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?  (Read 7742 times)

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Offline Recusant Sede

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Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 07:08:55 PM »
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    Very good. And what does an adult need to believe in order to possess the Catholic Faith?
    .
    The essential things that one must know are the Trinity, the incarnation and the redemption. 

    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 07:18:24 PM »
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    Very good. And what does an adult need to believe in order to possess the Catholic Faith?
    .
    Also, one must believe everything that the Catholic Church proposes to be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 07:44:14 PM »
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  • Wonders why it stings when you poke a hive with sticks. 

    "I wasn't aware" = "Wasn't"
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 07:56:31 PM »
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    From the Sunday Breviary which traditionally all Catholic priests pray, and consequently after a few years of this all traditional Catholic priests learn to recite the Athanasian Creed in Latin by heart. Since this is only one small part of their weekly prayers, it is not really unreasonable that any Catholic man (or woman!) might like to learn this Latin prayer. BTW the fact that it has become excised from the so-called Divine Office of Newpriests in Newchurch is all the more reason we ought to recognize its importance.
    .
    .
    .
    Symbolum Athanasianum                                     
    QUICÚMQUE vult salvus esse, ante ómnia opus est, ut téneat cathólicam fidem:
    Quam nisi quisque íntegram inviolatámque serváverit, absque dúbio in ætérnum períbit.
    Fides autem cathólica hæc est: ut unum Deum in Trinitáte, et Trinitátem in unitáte venerémur.
    Neque confundéntes persónas, neque substántiam separántes.
    Alia est enim persóna Patris, ália Fílii, ália Spíritus Sancti:
    Sed Patris, et Fílii, et Spíritus Sancti una est divínitas, æquális glória, coætérna majéstas.
    Qualis Pater, talis Fílius, talis Spíritus Sanctus.
    Increátus Pater, increátus Fílius, increátus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Imménsus Pater, imménsus Fílius, imménsus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Ætérnus Pater, ætérnus Fílius, ætérnus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres ætérni, sed unus ætérnus.
    Sicut non tres increáti, nec tres imménsi, sed unus increátus, et unus imménsus.
    Simíliter omnípotens Pater, omnípotens Fílius, omnípotens Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres omnipoténtes, sed unus omnípotens.
    Ita Deus Pater, Deus Fílius, Deus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dii, sed unus est Deus.
    Ita Dóminus Pater, Dóminus Fílius, Dóminus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dómini, sed unus est Dóminus.
    Quia, sicut singillátim unamquámque persónam Deum ac Dóminum confitéri christiána veritáte compéllimur: ita tres Deos aut Dóminos dícere cathólica religióne prohibémur.
    Pater a nullo est factus: nec creátus, nec génitus.
    Fílius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creátus, sed génitus.
    Spíritus Sanctus a Patre et Fílio: non factus, nec creátus, nec génitus, sed procédens.
    Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Fílius, non tres Fílii: unus Spíritus Sanctus, non tres Spíritus Sancti.
    Et in hac Trinitáte nihil prius aut postérius, nihil majus aut minus: sed totæ tres persónæ coætérnæ sibi sunt et coæquáles.
    Ita ut per ómnia, sicut jam supra dictum est, et únitas in Trinitáte, et Trínitas in unitáte veneránda sit.
    Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitáte séntiat.
    Sed necessárium est ad ætérnam salútem, ut Incarnatiónem quoque Dómini nostri Jesu Christi fidéliter credat.
    Est ergo fides recta, ut credámus et confiteámur, quia Dóminus noster Jesus Christus, Dei Fílius, Deus et homo est.
    Deus est ex substántia Patris ante sæcula génitus: et homo est ex substántia matris in sæculo natus.
    Perféctus Deus, perféctus homo: ex ánima rationáli et humána carne subsístens.
    Æquális Patri secúndum divinitátem: minor Patre secúndum humanitátem.
    Qui, licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus.
    Unus autem non conversióne divinitátis in carnem, sed assumptióne humanitátis in Deum.
    Unus omníno, non confusióne substántiæ, sed unitáte persónæ.
    Nam sicut ánima rationális et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus.
    Qui passus est pro salúte nostra: descéndit ad ínferos: tértia die resurréxit a mórtuis.
    Ascéndit ad cælos, sedet ad déxteram Dei Patris omnipoténtis: inde ventúrus est judicáre vivos et mórtuos.
    Ad cujus advéntum omnes hómines resúrgere habent cum corpóribus suis: et redditúri sunt de factis própriis ratiónem.
    Et qui bona egérunt, ibunt in vitam ætérnam: qui vero mala, in ignem ætérnum.
    Hæc est fides cathólica, quam nisi quisque fidéliter firmitérque credíderit, salvus esse non póterit.
    Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto.
    Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.
    Ant. Allelúja, confitémini Dómino quóniam in sæculum misericórdia ejus, allelúja, allelúja.

    Capit. 1 Tim. 1, 17


    .
    .
    (English translation)

    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreated, the Son Uncreated, and the Holy Ghost Uncreated. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
     
    So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
     
    So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
     
    Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
     
    God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 08:00:37 PM »
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  • Just another extra sacramentalist zealot.  Recite that particular Dogma and they will appear from the very air around you........... :soapbox:....................


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #20 on: October 31, 2017, 08:02:20 PM »
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  • .
    From the Sunday Breviary which traditionally all Catholic priests pray, and consequently after a few years of this all traditional Catholic priests learn to recite the Athanasian Creed in Latin by heart. Since this is only one small part of their weekly prayers, it is not really unreasonable that any Catholic man (or woman!) might like to learn this Latin prayer. BTW the fact that it has become excised from the so-called Divine Office of Newpriests in Newchurch is all the more reason we ought to recognize its importance.
    .
    .
    .
    Symbolum Athanasianum                                    
    QUICÚMQUE vult salvus esse, ante ómnia opus est, ut téneat cathólicam fidem:
    Quam nisi quisque íntegram inviolatámque serváverit, absque dúbio in ætérnum períbit.
    Fides autem cathólica hæc est: ut unum Deum in Trinitáte, et Trinitátem in unitáte venerémur.
    Neque confundéntes persónas, neque substántiam separántes.
    Alia est enim persóna Patris, ália Fílii, ália Spíritus Sancti:
    Sed Patris, et Fílii, et Spíritus Sancti una est divínitas, æquális glória, coætérna majéstas.
    Qualis Pater, talis Fílius, talis Spíritus Sanctus.
    Increátus Pater, increátus Fílius, increátus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Imménsus Pater, imménsus Fílius, imménsus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Ætérnus Pater, ætérnus Fílius, ætérnus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres ætérni, sed unus ætérnus.
    Sicut non tres increáti, nec tres imménsi, sed unus increátus, et unus imménsus.
    Simíliter omnípotens Pater, omnípotens Fílius, omnípotens Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres omnipoténtes, sed unus omnípotens.
    Ita Deus Pater, Deus Fílius, Deus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dii, sed unus est Deus.
    Ita Dóminus Pater, Dóminus Fílius, Dóminus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dómini, sed unus est Dóminus.
    Quia, sicut singillátim unamquámque persónam Deum ac Dóminum confitéri christiána veritáte compéllimur: ita tres Deos aut Dóminos dícere cathólica religióne prohibémur.
    Pater a nullo est factus: nec creátus, nec génitus.
    Fílius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creátus, sed génitus.
    Spíritus Sanctus a Patre et Fílio: non factus, nec creátus, nec génitus, sed procédens.
    Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Fílius, non tres Fílii: unus Spíritus Sanctus, non tres Spíritus Sancti.
    Et in hac Trinitáte nihil prius aut postérius, nihil majus aut minus: sed totæ tres persónæ coætérnæ sibi sunt et coæquáles.
    Ita ut per ómnia, sicut jam supra dictum est, et únitas in Trinitáte, et Trínitas in unitáte veneránda sit.
    Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitáte séntiat.
    Sed necessárium est ad ætérnam salútem, ut Incarnatiónem quoque Dómini nostri Jesu Christi fidéliter credat.
    Est ergo fides recta, ut credámus et confiteámur, quia Dóminus noster Jesus Christus, Dei Fílius, Deus et homo est.
    Deus est ex substántia Patris ante sæcula génitus: et homo est ex substántia matris in sæculo natus.
    Perféctus Deus, perféctus homo: ex ánima rationáli et humána carne subsístens.
    Æquális Patri secúndum divinitátem: minor Patre secúndum humanitátem.
    Qui, licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus.
    Unus autem non conversióne divinitátis in carnem, sed assumptióne humanitátis in Deum.
    Unus omníno, non confusióne substántiæ, sed unitáte persónæ.
    Nam sicut ánima rationális et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus.
    Qui passus est pro salúte nostra: descéndit ad ínferos: tértia die resurréxit a mórtuis.
    Ascéndit ad cælos, sedet ad déxteram Dei Patris omnipoténtis: inde ventúrus est judicáre vivos et mórtuos.
    Ad cujus advéntum omnes hómines resúrgere habent cum corpóribus suis: et redditúri sunt de factis própriis ratiónem.
    Et qui bona egérunt, ibunt in vitam ætérnam: qui vero mala, in ignem ætérnum.
    Hæc est fides cathólica, quam nisi quisque fidéliter firmitérque credíderit, salvus esse non póterit.
    Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto.
    Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.
    Ant. Allelúja, confitémini Dómino quóniam in sæculum misericórdia ejus, allelúja, allelúja.

    Capit. 1 Tim. 1, 17


    .
    .
    (English translation)

    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreated, the Son Uncreated, and the Holy Ghost Uncreated. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
     
    So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
     
    So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
     
    Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
     
    God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
    Not much wiggle room here for the more elastic liberal mind.

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 08:14:12 PM »
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  • The essential things that one must know are the Trinity, the incarnation and the redemption.


    Also, one must believe everything that the Catholic Church proposes to be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith.
    .
    Sorry it took so long -- I had to go take care of some things.
    .
    So there's the Trinity (properly understood), the Incarnation (properly understood) and the Redemption (properly understood).
    Furthermore there is everything the Church teaches as necessary for all Catholics to believe.
    .
    The Athanasian Creed, above clarifies the proper understanding of the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Redemption. 
    It also spells out we must believe in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
    .
    We have two more Creeds that fill in a few gaps, but the Athanasian Creed goes into details the others skip over. 

    Since that time there have been councils and ex-cathedra definitions which progressively clarify what all Catholics must believe.
    .
    Such as the Council of Trent which pronounces anathema on anyone who says the sacraments are not necessary.
    .
    You're all worked up over "The Feeneyites" but I really don't know what those people believe that you think is so terrible.
    .
    Can you explain it?
    .
    Where in the Athanasian Creed, the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed do these so-called Feeneyites depart from the Catholic Faith?
    .
    Or, is it somewhere else that you're getting what you think is so earth-shakingly important to be a Catholic?
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 08:17:02 PM »
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  • .
    From the Sunday Breviary which traditionally all Catholic priests pray, and consequently after a few years of this all traditional Catholic priests learn to recite the Athanasian Creed in Latin by heart. Since this is only one small part of their weekly prayers, it is not really unreasonable that any Catholic man (or woman!) might like to learn this Latin prayer. BTW the fact that it has become excised from the so-called Divine Office of Newpriests in Newchurch is all the more reason we ought to recognize its importance.
    .
    .
    .
    Symbolum Athanasianum                                    
    QUICÚMQUE vult salvus esse, ante ómnia opus est, ut téneat cathólicam fidem:
    Quam nisi quisque íntegram inviolatámque serváverit, absque dúbio in ætérnum períbit.
    Fides autem cathólica hæc est: ut unum Deum in Trinitáte, et Trinitátem in unitáte venerémur.
    Neque confundéntes persónas, neque substántiam separántes.
    Alia est enim persóna Patris, ália Fílii, ália Spíritus Sancti:
    Sed Patris, et Fílii, et Spíritus Sancti una est divínitas, æquális glória, coætérna majéstas.
    Qualis Pater, talis Fílius, talis Spíritus Sanctus.
    Increátus Pater, increátus Fílius, increátus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Imménsus Pater, imménsus Fílius, imménsus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Ætérnus Pater, ætérnus Fílius, ætérnus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres ætérni, sed unus ætérnus.
    Sicut non tres increáti, nec tres imménsi, sed unus increátus, et unus imménsus.
    Simíliter omnípotens Pater, omnípotens Fílius, omnípotens Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres omnipoténtes, sed unus omnípotens.
    Ita Deus Pater, Deus Fílius, Deus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dii, sed unus est Deus.
    Ita Dóminus Pater, Dóminus Fílius, Dóminus Spíritus Sanctus.
    Et tamen non tres Dómini, sed unus est Dóminus.
    Quia, sicut singillátim unamquámque persónam Deum ac Dóminum confitéri christiána veritáte compéllimur: ita tres Deos aut Dóminos dícere cathólica religióne prohibémur.
    Pater a nullo est factus: nec creátus, nec génitus.
    Fílius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creátus, sed génitus.
    Spíritus Sanctus a Patre et Fílio: non factus, nec creátus, nec génitus, sed procédens.
    Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Fílius, non tres Fílii: unus Spíritus Sanctus, non tres Spíritus Sancti.
    Et in hac Trinitáte nihil prius aut postérius, nihil majus aut minus: sed totæ tres persónæ coætérnæ sibi sunt et coæquáles.
    Ita ut per ómnia, sicut jam supra dictum est, et únitas in Trinitáte, et Trínitas in unitáte veneránda sit.
    Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitáte séntiat.
    Sed necessárium est ad ætérnam salútem, ut Incarnatiónem quoque Dómini nostri Jesu Christi fidéliter credat.
    Est ergo fides recta, ut credámus et confiteámur, quia Dóminus noster Jesus Christus, Dei Fílius, Deus et homo est.
    Deus est ex substántia Patris ante sæcula génitus: et homo est ex substántia matris in sæculo natus.
    Perféctus Deus, perféctus homo: ex ánima rationáli et humána carne subsístens.
    Æquális Patri secúndum divinitátem: minor Patre secúndum humanitátem.
    Qui, licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus.
    Unus autem non conversióne divinitátis in carnem, sed assumptióne humanitátis in Deum.
    Unus omníno, non confusióne substántiæ, sed unitáte persónæ.
    Nam sicut ánima rationális et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus.
    Qui passus est pro salúte nostra: descéndit ad ínferos: tértia die resurréxit a mórtuis.
    Ascéndit ad cælos, sedet ad déxteram Dei Patris omnipoténtis: inde ventúrus est judicáre vivos et mórtuos.
    Ad cujus advéntum omnes hómines resúrgere habent cum corpóribus suis: et redditúri sunt de factis própriis ratiónem.
    Et qui bona egérunt, ibunt in vitam ætérnam: qui vero mala, in ignem ætérnum.
    Hæc est fides cathólica, quam nisi quisque fidéliter firmitérque credíderit, salvus esse non póterit.
    Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto.
    Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.
    Ant. Allelúja, confitémini Dómino quóniam in sæculum misericórdia ejus, allelúja, allelúja.

    Capit. 1 Tim. 1, 17


    .
    .
    (English translation)

    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreated, the Son Uncreated, and the Holy Ghost Uncreated. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
     
    So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
     
    So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
     
    Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
     
    God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
    Isn’t that one of the most beautiful things ever written?


    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 08:19:08 PM »
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  • Not much wiggle room here for the more elastic liberal mind.
    .
    I have a hard time imagining Pope Francis pronouncing these words of the Athanasian Creed. How about you?
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    But I have no problem imagining him pronounce any one of many versions of so-called baptism of desire.
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    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 08:35:07 PM »
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  • Isn’t that one of the most beautiful things ever written?
    .
    Isn't it nice to know that we share something that's really important? We both appreciate the beauty of the Catholic Faith.
    .
    Would that could be the beginning and end of the discussion.
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    The Athanasian Creed has the effect of bringing Catholics together.
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    It's something we should be happy to share, and actually, we ought to be using it more frequently.
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    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 08:37:30 PM »
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  • .
    Sorry it took so long -- I had to go take care of some things.
    .
    So there's the Trinity (properly understood), the Incarnation (properly understood) and the Redemption (properly understood).
    Furthermore there is everything the Church teaches as necessary for all Catholics to believe.
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    The Athanasian Creed, above clarifies the proper understanding of the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Redemption.
    It also spells out we must believe in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
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    We have two more Creeds that fill in a few gaps, but the Athanasian Creed goes into details the others skip over.
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    Since that time there have been councils and ex-cathedra definitions which progressively clarify what all Catholics must believe.
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    Such as the Council of Trent which pronounces anathema on anyone who says the sacraments are not necessary.
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    You're all worked up over "The Feeneyites" but I really don't know what those people believe that you think is so terrible.
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    Can you explain it?
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    Where in the Athanasian Creed, the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed do these so-called Feeneyites depart from the Catholic Faith?
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    Or, is it somewhere else that you're getting what you think is so earth-shakingly important to be a Catholic?
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    *All* (as far as I know) popes, saints, theologians, canonists for the last 400 plus years have taught that one who has not been baptized can be saved if they have the desire for the sacrament of baptism and make and act of perfect contrition before they die. This is an act of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium which is infallible. The Council of Trent defined that one who has the desire for the sacrament can be justified and acording to Saint Alphonsus it is de fide. Obviously, I believe that this teaching was even taught by the Church from it’s beginning.


    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 08:38:40 PM »
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  • .
    Isn't it nice to know that we share something that's really important? We both appreciate the beauty of the Catholic Faith.
    .
    Would that could be the beginning and end of the discussion.
    .
    The Athanasian Creed has the effect of bringing Catholics together.
    .
    It's something we should be happy to share, and actually, we ought to be using it more frequently.
    .
    Yes, I agree!

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 09:02:28 PM »
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  • .
    *All* (as far as I know) popes, saints, theologians, canonists for the last 400 plus years have taught that one who has not been baptized can be saved if they have the desire for the sacrament of baptism and make and act of perfect contrition before they die. This is an act of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium which is infallible. The Council of Trent defined that one who has the desire for the sacrament can be justified and acording to Saint Alphonsus it is de fide. Obviously, I believe that this teaching was even taught by the Church from it’s beginning.
    .
    So, what's the problem? We all believe the Catholic Faith. 
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    And precisely NONE of us can know the state of mind or soul of a dying person after he's dead, nor can we demand of God that He sees the state of that person's soul the way WE see it (in our ignorance).
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    If a dying person prays to God asking Him for Holy Baptism, who are we to pronounce that since we did not see the Sacrament happen therefore it could not have taken place? Didn't Our Lord promise us that anything we ask of God in Jesus' name will not be denied to us?
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    Who are we to say that God cannot provide water baptism to anyone who sincerely asks for it?
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    Furthermore, who are we to demand that God provide water baptism to someone when we cannot be absolutely sure that the person isn't deeply committed to an intense opposition to God, with a hardened heart when only God would know that were He to miraculously provide water baptism to this person that he would then immediately after baptism go and sin deeply in his heart being of fixed will against God so as to render his soul subject to eternal punishment WITH THE INDELIBLE MARK of Holy Baptism on his soul making his eternal punishment even WORSE than it would have been had he not been baptized in the first place?
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    Which is a more perfect providence for almighty God? Is it more perfect that God would provide that which we presume is best (in our ignorance), or is it more perfect that God would provide that which He in His infinite knowledge and wisdom knows is BETTER?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #28 on: November 01, 2017, 05:26:44 AM »
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  • Who are we to say that God cannot provide water baptism to anyone who sincerely asks for it?

    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why so many Feeneyites on Cathinfo?
    « Reply #29 on: November 01, 2017, 06:47:01 AM »
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  • .
    I cannot understand why it's so important to some to go around proclaiming their faith in a theory of speculation.
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    To say it's been supported by theologians for hundreds of years for them is all they need.
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    Never mind the same theologians have been wrong in other cases.
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    Take St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, who denied the Immaculate Conception, based on a pagan tradition of "ensoulment."
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    That alone could have slowed down the Definition for several hundred years.
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    But the Nicene Creed's words "I believe in one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins" is to be understood in a different way....?
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    It doesn't say three baptisms, does it?
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    I heard an otherwise reliable priest say that I John 5:8 refers to this -- when the subject of that Scripture is not Baptism.
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    Then he said BoD and BoB are not sacraments, but "these three are one."
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    You can't make this stuff up.
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    Now they argue that St. Emerentiana never received Baptism.
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    Show me her Baptism of Desire Certificate.
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    Show me ANYONE'S Baptism of Desire Certificate!
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    Go ask the priest who proclaims BoD, for a BoD certificate and see what he says.
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    If he asks you why you want one, ask him why he thinks BoD is worth preaching about.
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    If St. Emerentiana sincerely asked God for Baptism of water then certainly God must have provided it for her.
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    How could He have refused her such a simple matter?
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    Just to break His own rule so the liberals could make the Exception into the New Rule?
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    Why can't we just be concerned with the essential matters and leave the speculation for theologians?
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