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Author Topic: Why not Orthodox  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline Jimmy

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Why not Orthodox
« on: November 28, 2022, 10:32:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir on Today at 03:55:05 PM

    Quote
    Welcome, Jimmy. Good to hear of your reversion. Keep far away from the Orthodox whether or not their sacraments are valid. Go the extra mile to the SSPX. I pray that your faith will increase.
     :pray: title=pray

    Thanks for the advice.

    Could I ask why it is so important to keep away from Orthodox. I don't know much about this, but I figured that the Church recognized that the Orthodox had valid sacraments before we lost our Pope.

    Would the only reason to stay away from them be the sermon. I may be oversimplifying this, but it seems to me that as long as it is a valid mass with valid sacraments there would be no problem going to it, since there is so much confusion going around anyway. I've never been to an Orthodox Mass, and it has been years since I've been to any Mass, but from what I understand, they are basically the same. Correct me if I am wrong... as I said, I have no credibility and very limited knowledge on this topic.

    If SSPX or sede church were closer, I would not question it at all. However, I am by no means a rich guy, and it would be difficult for me to pay for a two hour round trip of gas every Sunday. If there is a problem going to Orthodox, then I will 100% go to SSPX, but if I would be traveling over an hour away just for a sermon, I would rather just let my mind wander during an Orthodox sermon and then just read up on the works of the saints.


    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2022, 10:39:16 PM »
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  • The best advantage is obligatory, imho, even by nature besides grace. It's like the best move in chess. If you see it, it's obligatory, and the filioque is the best advantage in theology and obligatory, and the Orthodox disrespect it. That's no way to play the game. 


    Offline Jimmy

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 11:05:31 PM »
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  • The best advantage is obligatory, imho, even by nature besides grace. It's like the best move in chess. If you see it, it's obligatory, and the filioque is the best advantage in theology and obligatory, and the Orthodox disrespect it. That's no way to play the game.

    I may just be an idiot, but I don't think I understand. Is it sinful to go to an Orthodox Mass or just not recommended?

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 11:34:57 PM »
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  • Don’t worry, Jimmy. You are not the only one here to puzzle over Donachie’s posts. I don’t understand either.

    Another good idea is the search engine. 

    I am no expert, but you will certainly get answer when the others wake from their slumber.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 11:48:22 PM »
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  • I may just be an idiot, but I don't think I understand. Is it sinful to go to an Orthodox Mass or just not recommended?
    Why go to an Orthodox mass if you're not Orthodox, and believe in the filioque and its correctness, when they don't and openly disrespect it? 

    Go to a Byzantine Mass which accepts the filioque or another Eastern Rite that does accept the filioque and is in communion with that important doctrine of the faith. Otherwise stay home and study the filioque or St. Augustine and Latin until you understand them both better. That's just my opinion.

    Nadir may be at work again on the indivisibilty of knowledge and not sure what to do with it. But God bless.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #5 on: November 28, 2022, 11:54:05 PM »
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  • http://www.radioreplies.info/radio-replies-vol-2.php?t=139

    1262. May a Catholic hear Mass, then, in a Greek Church?
    He may do so in a Uniate Greek Church, but not in any of the schismatical Orthodox Churches. Those Churches are not part of the Catholic Church, but are in a state of schism and of protest against the authority of Christ in His true Church. Churches separated from the unity of the Catholic Church are not according to the will of Christ, who demands that His followers should form one flock under one shepherd. No Catholic therefore may take part in, or sanction in any way, the services of the Greek Orthodox Churches.
    1263. I have heard that, when a Catholic priest is not available, Catholics may receive the Sacraments from Greek Orthodox priests. Is that consistent?
    When no Catholic priest is available, the Catholic Church permits a dying Catholic to receive one Sacrament only from a Greek priest, and that is the Sacrament of Confession. The very law of the Catholic Church forbidding participation in Greek rites during life is to preserve a Catholic from danger of schism, and within the true Church, for the sake of his very salvation. And if, at the hour of death, that salvation can be the better secured by the reception of absolution from a Greek priest rather than go without such absolution, the Church wisely and mercifully permits it. But, as is clear, this exception avails only in the case of extreme necessity, when no Catholic priest is available, and on condition that the Catholic merely accepts absolution from the Greek priest as a priest, and in no way approving his position as a schismatic.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #6 on: November 29, 2022, 12:05:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir on Today at 03:55:05 PM

    Thanks for the advice.

    Could I ask why it is so important to keep away from Orthodox. I don't know much about this, but I figured that the Church recognized that the Orthodox had valid sacraments before we lost our Pope.

    Would the only reason to stay away from them be the sermon. I may be oversimplifying this, but it seems to me that as long as it is a valid mass with valid sacraments there would be no problem going to it, since there is so much confusion going around anyway. I've never been to an Orthodox Mass, and it has been years since I've been to any Mass, but from what I understand, they are basically the same. Correct me if I am wrong... as I said, I have no credibility and very limited knowledge on this topic.

    If SSPX or sede church were closer, I would not question it at all. However, I am by no means a rich guy, and it would be difficult for me to pay for a two hour round trip of gas every Sunday. If there is a problem going to Orthodox, then I will 100% go to SSPX, but if I would be traveling over an hour away just for a sermon, I would rather just let my mind wander during an Orthodox sermon and then just read up on the works of the saints.

    Hi, Jimmy.  No, it's not about the sermon.  It all has to do with the fact that Our Lord Jesus Christ founded a single Church, and it's quite clear from the earliest Christian Tradition, from the Church Fathers, that there's no pleasing God or saving one's soul outside the unity of the Church founded by Christ, that those in schism from the One Church founded by Christ are outside the Body of Christ.  That Church is the one rooted in the successors of St. Peter.

    Where do you live?  There are also Eastern Rite Catholic options that you could attend w/o having to go Orthodox and separating oneself from the Church.  If you let us know the general area in which you live, I could look around to see what I can find.

    All Christians believed tht one had to have true/sound doctrine to be a Christian and to be saved.  Thus the very term "Orthodox" refers to "right belief".  Question is how can one know where this right / correct belief is to be found when disagreements and different interpretations arise.  I'll try to write more tomorrow when it's not as late.

    God bless you,
    Laszlo

    Offline Jimmy

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #7 on: November 29, 2022, 12:24:09 AM »
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  • Hi, Jimmy.  No, it's not about the sermon.  It all has to do with the fact that Our Lord Jesus Christ founded a single Church, and it's quite clear from the earliest Christian Tradition, from the Church Fathers, that there's no pleasing God or saving one's soul outside the unity of the Church founded by Christ, that those in schism from the One Church founded by Christ are outside the Body of Christ.  That Church is the one rooted in the successors of St. Peter.

    Where do you live?  There are also Eastern Rite Catholic options that you could attend w/o having to go Orthodox and separating oneself from the Church.  If you let us know the general area in which you live, I could look around to see what I can find.

    All Christians believed tht one had to have true/sound doctrine to be a Christian and to be saved.  Thus the very term "Orthodox" refers to "right belief".  Question is how can one know where this right / correct belief is to be found when disagreements and different interpretations arise.  I'll try to write more tomorrow when it's not as late.

    God bless you,
    Laszlo
    I'd appreciate all the advise I can get. I live in Florida. I honestly have not done much research into the Churches in my area, only a quick google search. I'm probably as confused as they get when it comes to what is valid or licit or whatever. If it is not too much trouble, could someone post a list of Churches it is not sinful to attend in Florida?


    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #8 on: November 29, 2022, 03:21:29 AM »
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  • Which Orthodox Church? Russian? Greek? Antiochian? Old Calendar? Old rite? The list goes on, some are in communion, some are not. Once schism starts, it doesn’t stop. 

    Offline Jimmy

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #9 on: November 29, 2022, 07:20:29 AM »
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  • Which Orthodox Church? Russian? Greek? Antiochian? Old Calendar? Old rite? The list goes on, some are in communion, some are not. Once schism starts, it doesn’t stop.
    Do you know which ones are ok to go to and which ones are not? I have no idea how far into schism a Church has to go to be sinful to go to. I honestly don't care what kind of Church I go to, but I don't want to sin by choosing wrong. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #10 on: November 29, 2022, 07:22:23 AM »
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  • I'd appreciate all the advise I can get. I live in Florida. I honestly have not done much research into the Churches in my area, only a quick google search. I'm probably as confused as they get when it comes to what is valid or licit or whatever. If it is not too much trouble, could someone post a list of Churches it is not sinful to attend in Florida?

    Do you have a Metro area in Florida that would be convenient for you to go to?  I'm trying to respond to your concern that you don't have the means to travel as far as the SSPX chapel is from you.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #11 on: November 29, 2022, 07:27:11 AM »
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  • Do you know which ones are ok to go to and which ones are not? I have no idea how far into schism a Church has to go to be sinful to go to. I honestly don't care what kind of Church I go to, but I don't want to sin by choosing wrong.

    His post wasn’t clear enough for someone unfamiliar with things traditional. Do not go to ANY Orthodox church. You can go to an Eastern Right Catholic Church. Most SSPX churches are acceptable also. I would mostly suggest that you go to either the SSPV or the CMRI. Where in Florida do you live? I don’t believe that the CMRI is an option in Florida, but the SSPV is.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #12 on: November 29, 2022, 07:33:18 AM »
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  • Florida SSPV locations:

    Boynton Beach: Our Lady of Peace Church, 2121 South Seacrest Blvd., Boynton Beach, Florida 33435. Call  (954) 214-5019. Every Sunday at 5:00 p.m.

    Our Lady of Sorrows Chapel, 1610 North Temple Avenue (U.S. 301), Starke, Florida 32091. Contact: Don Rowan at (352) 226-6337. Mass offered by the priests of the Congregation of St. Pius V. Mass Times: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Sundays of the month at 9:00 a.m. Please call to verify times.



    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #13 on: November 29, 2022, 07:34:09 AM »
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  • Do you know which ones are ok to go to and which ones are not? I have no idea how far into schism a Church has to go to be sinful to go to. I honestly don't care what kind of Church I go to, but I don't want to sin by choosing wrong.

    We can't go to any Orthodox churches.  And, here's the thing.  While the Modernized NO churches will give the Sacraments to the Orthodox (due to the collapse of faith in the Novus Ordo), the Orthodox will NOT give the Sacraments to Catholics ... unless it's some weird "Autocephalous" place that are also Modernized and make up their own rules.  In refusing the Sacraments to non-Orthodox, the Orthodox are actually more consistent with the ancient practice of the Church that there can be no communion in Sacraments without unity of faith.  So the question that remains is who have the true faith, the Traditional Catholic Church and the Orthodox?  And the answer to that is very clear.  There has to be some arbiter when disagreements arise in the Church.  Otherwise, there can be no unity of faith after inevitable disagreements arise.  And the Church Fathers recognize that in Sacred Scripture, Our Lord appointed Peter to be that rock of faith who was appointed to "confirm the brethren".  And the Church Fathers all believed that the successors of the Apostles carried on the authority of the Apostles, i.e. that the appointment of St. Peter was not a one-shot deal for St. Peter himself.

    https://melkite.org/faith/sunday-scriptures/peter-has-spoken-through-leo
    Quote
    Like other councils, the Council of Chalcedon dealt with both theological and political issues. The main theological issue was how to express the mystery of Christ’s incarnation in the face of the Monophysitism taught by Eutyches, an influential priest in Constantinople and a disciple of St Cyril of Alexandria. At its second session the Council adopted the concept “two natures in one Person,” employed by Pope St. Leo the Great in a letter to Flavian, the archbishop of Constantinople. When the letter was read to the bishops, they replied, “This is the faith of the fathers! This is the faith of the Apostles! So we all believe! Thus the Orthodox believe! Anathema to him who does not thus believe! Peter has spoken thus through Leo!” Leo’s expression has been used in the Greek and Latin Churches ever since.

    If you don't want to reveal your Metro area on the forum for whatever reason, just send me a private message and I can see what Catholic alternatives there might be within a manageable distance from your current location.

    Now, what has happened since early Vatican II is that the Holy See has been usurped and taken over by a series of Antipopes.  This infiltration has been centuries in the making and their plans to do exactly this have been revealed over the years.  This is a great chastisement and testing of the faith.

    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Why not Orthodox
    « Reply #14 on: November 29, 2022, 07:36:12 AM »
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  • https://florida.sspx.org/en/Mass-centers

    https://www.eparchyofpassaic.com/directory?ds_state=FL

    https://www.dosp.org/chancellor/directory/eastern-catholic-churches/

    As far as I can tell, the last 2 links are Uniate i.e. Catholic churches.  And there may be others.  This was just from a quick search.