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Author Topic: Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?  (Read 1111 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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    The abominable new proposal of Cardinal Walter Kasper, to allow 'divorced' and/or 're-married' (oxymoron) Catholics to act as if they're not outside the Church is garnering attention in the media, and even Pope Francis has made comments that sound like he is leaning toward agreeing with this heresy.  

    In the current April 2014 edition of CFN, John Vennari has two major articles on this topic, the first on page 7 (goes on for 2 pages), and the second on p. 13 (5 pp. long).  But this is so big, it's also mentioned in CFNews BRIEFS on p. 12 and pops up in other articles as well.  One could almost say, this entire edition is chock full of the topic.  And rightly so, because it is a fundamentally consequential concept and principle on the line, if Kasper's latest agenda item gains any steam.  

    In saner times it would be cause for Kasper to be severely disciplined, perhaps removed and defrocked.  But don't hold your breath!  

    Vennari made an opening salvo on YouTube a few weeks ago about this, in answer to Michael Voris' unwarranted assault on him and two other quasi-traditional authors (Chris Ferrara and Michael Matt).  The video is mentioned on p. 17 at the end of the second major article, as follows:

    "The first part of this essay is an edited/augmented version [of] a YouTube response to Voris posted on March 19 [Feast of St. Joseph].  The video can be viewed at www.cfnews.org/noah.htm "


    Here is the video, right here.  "Traditional Catholics and Noah's Nakedness"

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/DfFMrWHQS-8[/youtube]


    The second major article to which this message is appended is headlined, "THE ITERNATIONAL REPORT - Traditional Catholics and Noah's Nakedness - A commentary on Michael Voris' Assault on Traditional Catholic Writers," p. 13 of the April CFN.  

    If this were another periodical, one might be thinking at this point, "but the next edition is due any day now," but not so with CFN.  You won't be getting your May edition until perhaps the second week of May, as CFN is notoriously late in its arrival.  And you're not likely to find much of this posted on the CFN website because only select articles go there, and there is no online edition.  Apparently, that's an editorial decision that is aimed at promoting subscriptions.  But I digress.  

    This second major article is ostensibly all about "a response - one response.  I have no intention of a prolonged back and forth on the topic" (p. 13).  Beyond the video and the vituperations of Voris, however, is the relevant part of this article, found on page 17, that is, the tail end of it (just before the quoted "edited/augmented" essay, above).  It has to do with Pope Francis' reaction on record, to Cardinal Kasper's (latest) heresy.  

    The droll photo of Francis there is captioned: "Catastrophic:  Pope Francis appears to endorse Cardinal Kasper's toxic proposal regarding the Eucharist for divorced and re-married Catholics."

    Another video by The American Catholic has the talking head of Raymond Arroyo attempting to address this topic, that is, without being too "uncharitable."  

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/llSCDBNPvK4[/youtube]


    Here's what I find interesting on p. 17 of CFN:


    The one voice absent in the defense of marriage is that of Pope Francis

    Worse, Pope Francis sent shock waves throught the entire Church when he publicly praised Cardinal Kasper's toxic proposal.

    On the February 21 opening of a Consistory meeting at the Paul VI Hall, Francis said,  



    "Yesterday, before falling asleep, though not to fall asleep,
    I read, or re-read, Cardinal Kasper's remarks.  
    I would like to thank him, because I found a deep theology,
    and serene thoughts in theology.  It is nice to read serene theology.  
    It did me well and I had and idea, and excuse me
    if I embarrass Your Eminnece, but the idea is:  
    this is called doing theology while kneeling.
    Thank you. Thank you."
     


    [Isn't that interesting?  The CFN page continues]:

    Rome Reports headlined its story, "Pope Francis Expresses Support for Cardinal Kasper's 'serene theology' on the Family."  

    This is nothing short of catastrophic.  [the bold/red was my idea]

    It is the Pope's duty to confirm the traditional teaching of the Church, not to give the impression of undermining immutable truth.  In the name of being "pastoral,"  Francis has incited chaos regarding Catholic dogma on marriage and divorce.  It is a deadly and profoundly unpastoral act.

    We can do no better than to quote Father Brian hαɾɾιson on this momentous issue,  "Let us make no mistake:  Satan is right now shaking the Church to her very foundations over this divorce issue.  If anything the confusion is becoming even graver than that over contraception between 1965 and 1968, when Paul VI's seeming vacillation allowed Catholics round the world to anticipate a reversal of perennial Church teaching."

    hαɾɾιson warns, "If the present Successor of Peter now keeps silent about divorce and remarriage, thereby tacitly telling the Church and the world that the teaching of Jesus Christ will be up for open debate at a forthcoming Synod of Bishops, one fears a terrible price will soon have to be paid."

    No one wants to second-guess the Pope, but Francis is showing colossal irresponsibility in allowing the question about divorce and readmission to the Eucharist to fester, and in giving the impression of endorsing Kasper's destabilization of Marriage.  

    As the Message of Fatima instructs us, "pray a great deal for the Holy Father."  But we are also called upon to defend the truths of the Faith, defend the sacrament of Marriage in this most deadly assault, and publicly resist Francis' wayward approach causing scandal and confusion in the Church worldwide.




    [It seems to me conspicuous that such commentators as Fr. hαɾɾιson continue to refer to Francis in such terms as "the present Successor of  Peter" when Francis himself pertinaciously insists on nothing more than "bishop of Rome," of course, all out of "humility."]


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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 07:27:32 AM »
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  • Ugh.

    Please, God, Francis needs to resign before this year's over. We need to get this apostate out of the Papal see.

    Believe me, with this guy, I can totally see why people go sede.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 07:31:57 AM »
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  • .

    CFNews BRIEFS quotes Rorate Caeli in the following page:



     Cardinal Caffarra's firm stance on communion for "remarried":
    Its approval would mean complete end of "Catholic doctrine on human sɛҳuąƖity"

    [Update: Full translation now available here.]


    Regarding the wild proposals of Cardinal Kasper made before the last Consistory of Cardinals regarding legitimizing by way of Eucharistic communion the "remarriage" of divorced couples (we could call the Kasper Doctrine of "mariages sauvages"), Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, Archbishop of Bologna, had the firmest possible words in an interview to Matteo Matzuzzi published this Saturday in Il Foglio:


        [Regarding Cardinal Walter Kasper's proposal on the possibility of readmitting to communion, after a period of penance, the couples of remarried divorcees who ask for it, following a period of penance, Caffarra says:]

    "If the Church admits [them] to the Eucharist, she must anyway grant a judgment of legitimacy to the second union.  That is logical.  But now - as I asked - what to make of the first matrimony?  The second, it is said, cannot be a true second matrimony, considering that bigamy goes against the word of the Lord.  What about the first one?  Is it dissolved?  But the Popes have always taught that the power of the Pope does not reach that point:  the Pope has no power over a marriage that is ratum et consummatum.  The proposed solution leads us to think that the first matrimony remains, but that there is also a second kind of cohabitation that the Church legitimizes.  It is, therefore, an extramarital exercise of human sɛҳuąƖity that the Church legitimizes. But with this, the foundational pillar of the Church's doctrine on sɛҳuąƖity is {rather, 'would be'} negated.  At this point, one could ask:  so why are not free [extramarital or premarital] unions approved?  And why not relations between ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs?"
    [Excerpt provided by TMNews Italy.]


    Cardinal Caffarra naturally got the fulcrum of the matter - indeed, the Kasper Doctrine means exactly that, the demolition in one fell swoop of the entire Catholic doctrinal edifice on human sɛҳuąƖity and the sacrament of matrimony.  And that consequence is not at all a coincidence.

    Labels: Communion for "Remarried" Divorcees, Kasper's Destruction of the Indissolubility of Marriage, Marriage, The Reformed Synod of Bishops
    Posted by New Catholic at 3/15/2014 06:03:00 PM




    There are no comments following the post by New Catholic, above.  



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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 07:58:11 AM »
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  • nvm
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 08:05:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    CFNews BRIEFS quotes Rorate Caeli in the following page:



     Cardinal Caffarra's firm stance on communion for "remarried":
    Its approval would mean complete end of "Catholic doctrine on human sɛҳuąƖity"

    [Update: Full translation now available here.]


    Regarding the wild proposals of Cardinal Kasper made before the last Consistory of Cardinals regarding legitimizing by way of Eucharistic communion the "remarriage" of divorced couples (we could call the Kasper Doctrine of "mariages sauvages"), Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, Archbishop of Bologna, had the firmest possible words in an interview to Matteo Matzuzzi published this Saturday in Il Foglio:


        [Regarding Cardinal Walter Kasper's proposal on the possibility of readmitting to communion, after a period of penance, the couples of remarried divorcees who ask for it, following a period of penance, Caffarra says:]

    "If the Church admits [them] to the Eucharist, she must anyway grant a judgment of legitimacy to the second union.  That is logical.  But now - as I asked - what to make of the first matrimony?  The second, it is said, cannot be a true second matrimony, considering that bigamy goes against the word of the Lord.  What about the first one?  Is it dissolved?  But the Popes have always taught that the power of the Pope does not reach that point:  the Pope has no power over a marriage that is ratum et consummatum.  The proposed solution leads us to think that the first matrimony remains, but that there is also a second kind of cohabitation that the Church legitimizes.  It is, therefore, an extramarital exercise of human sɛҳuąƖity that the Church legitimizes. But with this, the foundational pillar of the Church's doctrine on sɛҳuąƖity is {rather, 'would be'} negated.  At this point, one could ask:  so why are not free [extramarital or premarital] unions approved?  And why not relations between ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs?"
    [Excerpt provided by TMNews Italy.]


    Cardinal Caffarra naturally got the fulcrum of the matter - indeed, the Kasper Doctrine means exactly that, the demolition in one fell swoop of the entire Catholic doctrinal edifice on human sɛҳuąƖity and the sacrament of matrimony.  And that consequence is not at all a coincidence.

    Labels: Communion for "Remarried" Divorcees, Kasper's Destruction of the Indissolubility of Marriage, Marriage, The Reformed Synod of Bishops
    Posted by New Catholic at 3/15/2014 06:03:00 PM




    There are no comments following the post by New Catholic, above.  



    .


    It should be the joy of every Catholic's life to be able to have their wedding in the Church. "Cardinal" Demon Kasper's ideas invalidates it all. God help us.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 08:10:51 AM »
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    There are actually three major articles in the current CFN, for there are two found on pp. 6-7, headlined:

    Father Brian hαɾɾιson on Kasper's Assault on Marriage:  "Satan shaking the Church"

    and

    "What God Hath Joined Together..."  and The Cultural Revolution of Cardinal Kasper - Families are under attack and this is what the Cardinal is worried about?  by Professor Roberto de Mattei


    Regarding the former, (Fr. Brian hαɾɾιson...) it begins with the following Editor's note:

    {quote}
    The following is an important "Letter tot he Editor," written by theologian Father Brian W. hαɾɾιson, O.S., of St. Louis, MO, that appeared (in slightly abbreviated form) in the February 2014 issue of Inside the Vatican magazine.  The present attack on marriage is one of the greatest threats to the Church and to families in history;  and will be firmly resisted by Catholic Family news.  In this latest assault, there are various Catholics coming to the defense of marriage, tragically Pope Francis is not one of them (see more on this topic on page 7 and within the article on page 13 {which I quoted in the OP above}).
    {End of quote}



    Without my copying the whole article, it seems to me that there are three important observations Fr. hαɾɾιson makes in it.  They are consequences to the threatened novelty of admitting divorced and re-married persons to Communion without a commitment to continence:  

    A)   The denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ

    B)   The Church's universal and ordinary Magisterium would always have been wrong

    C)   The way would be opened to Communion by fornicators, practicing Sodomites, pederasts, and who knows what else?


    He caps these observations with the following warning:  "Please spare us the sophistry that Jesus' teaching was correct 'in His own historical and cultural context', but that since about Martin Luther's time that has all changed."  


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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 08:24:45 AM »
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    Why would the divinity of Our Lord be in question, you might ask?  

    The reason is, Scripture has Our Lord revealing the precept of God that those who re-marry after divorce commit adultery.  If Kasper the unfriendly Cardinal gets his way, it would seem that Our Lord was mistaken in calling this relationship adulterous, in which case He could scarcely have been the Son of God.  


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    Offline hugeman

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 03:16:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    There are actually three major articles in the current CFN, for there are two found on pp. 6-7, headlined:

    Father Brian hαɾɾιson on Kasper's Assault on Marriage:  "Satan shaking the Church"

    and

    "What God Hath Joined Together..."  and The Cultural Revolution of Cardinal Kasper - Families are under attack and this is what the Cardinal is worried about?  by Professor Roberto de Mattei


    Regarding the former, (Fr. Brian hαɾɾιson...) it begins with the following Editor's note:

    {quote}
    The following is an important "Letter tot he Editor," written by theologian Father Brian W. hαɾɾιson, O.S., of St. Louis, MO, that appeared (in slightly abbreviated form) in the February 2014 issue of Inside the Vatican magazine.  The present attack on marriage is one of the greatest threats to the Church and to families in history;  and will be firmly resisted by Catholic Family news.  In this latest assault, there are various Catholics coming to the defense of marriage, tragically Pope Francis is not one of them (see more on this topic on page 7 and within the article on page 13 {which I quoted in the OP above}).
    {End of quote}



    Without my copying the whole article, it seems to me that there are three important observations Fr. hαɾɾιson makes in it.  They are consequences to the threatened novelty of admitting divorced and re-married persons to Communion without a commitment to continence:  

    A)   The denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ

    B)   The Church's universal and ordinary Magisterium would always have been wrong

    C)   The way would be opened to Communion by fornicators, practicing Sodomites, pederasts, and who knows what else?


    He caps these observations with the following warning:  "Please spare us the sophistry that Jesus' teaching was correct 'in His own historical and cultural context', but that since about Martin Luther's time that has all changed."
    .



    Good Observations!
    Just wondering-- Is Kasper doing this to formalize and legitimize the situation already existing within the conciliar religion? Does anybody have, or  is anyone aware of, any studies or reports of how prevalent this already is?
      For example, recently I walked into a Novus ordo "church" (only while awaiting the opening of a function in the basement of the church), and entered just as "communion" was being distributed by two females at the "altar". EVERY SINGLE PERSON  in the church went up to "receive". EVERYBODY in the entire "church" walked up to receive the 'wafer' from these ladies up front! Now, since we know that over fifty percent of marriages end in divorce; and that a high percentage of 'marriages' today are 'second marriages', the fact that every single person received communion can only mean two things:
    1) Not one of the some three hundred people had been civilly divorced and 'remarried', or
    2)  some  percent of those who received (who were married) had been 're-married'.
        This, of course, is not statistical-- but someone maybe aware of a study out there.

       And, I know personally, SSPX "faithful" who are civilly divorced, and have been advised by SSPX 'priests' to go to the indult mass churches and get 'married', then come back as "husband and wife" (being able , of course, to receive communion.




    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why not let divorcedre-married Catholics receive Holy Communion?
    « Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 05:57:30 AM »
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  • .

    Good questions, hugeman.  I didn't see answers to these in the articles, but I'll re-read them thinking about what you're asking.  I have not researched the topic.  But I am impressed that John Vennari seems to be on this like glue, and has pledged to firmly stand against this corruption.  

    If only our American bishops would be so forthright.  Vennari was going to study to become a priest but he left the seminary and got married.  It seems to me he would have made a good bishop.  But apparently God had other plans for him.  His children are growing up and he's a good father.  

    Right now it's time for some shut-eye but I'll try to get back to this later today.  

    Happy Easter!  


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