Today marks my first day as a sedevacantist. I have finally caved, after years of fighting my conscience.

Here's why:

1. The Novus Ordo Missae was lawfully promulgated. This is a fact. Anyone who does an honest study will come to this conclusion. Yet, the NOM is evil. It's impossible for the Church to promulgate evil liturgy

2. Vatican II should have been protected by UOM - "B-b-b-but it was pastoral" Not according to the official docuмents.

"Pope" Paul VI
Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding. The rest of the things which the sacred Council sets forth, inasmuch as they are the teaching of the Church's supreme magisterium, ought to be accepted and embraced by each and every one of Christ's faithful according to the mind of the sacred Council. The mind of the Council becomes known either from the matter treated or from its manner of speaking, in accordance with the norms of theological interpretation.

3. New Canonizations - JP2 and John XXIII - If these two guys are saints, JP2 in particular, which one MUST accept if they accept the post-conciliar Popes, what the heck are we doing? You can become a saint promoting Vatican II and the NO. Give it up, guys! What are you resisting? Just get blessed by some animists, pray to buddha, and your on your way to heaven. NOT. A saint he aint. This is a FACT!

4. Novus Ordo Magisterium - This is maybe the strongest argument. You realize that the "Church" now teaches, "infallibility," dual-covenant theology, religious liberty, heretical ecclesiology, rejects EENS, amongst other previously condemned heresies?

Amongst other things. Anyway, it's been fun, R&R. But, I'm done. I'm done with the double-think, faulty logic and nonsense. I reject this false Church and all associated with it.

Actually there is no such thing as a 'sede vacantist' but at least you now see the anti-church & it's anti-popes.

The only solution to the current mess  is a recognition of Gregory XVII as true Pope until his death on 1989.  :detective:

I don't know the solution. I do know I can't continue lying to myself about these destroyers of the faith.

I think that this is like the Arian crisis in that there is a very, very wide abuse of authority and corruption in the hierarchy. However, I do not think that the hierarchy has lost its authority, and cannot do so without excommunication. I don't think that heretics can be deposed automatically without any canonical recognition of their being deposed; even if they do incur "automatic excommunication", they retain their jurisdiction in the Church until such time as they are canonically deposed, and one can receive the sacraments from them validly and licitly; however, I do not blame those who avoid them out of repugnance for their heresy or sacrilegious abuse of the divine liturgy. I do not think that the Novus Ordo is intrinsically evil; remember, that the Novus Ordo in its own texts advocates Latin, Gregorian chant, and ad orientem. Abuse can make any liturgy evil, e.g. you can turn the ancient liturgy into a Black Mass. I do not think that every member of the hierarchy is bad-willed, or even a majority; I think a lot of them are just following their superiors with Catholic obedience. You have to separate the "useful idiot" who thinks he's helping in the "renewal" of the Church, and a corrupt ideologue who is intent on destroying the Church - the latter is evil in a way the former is clearly not. The problem is the infiltration of such ideologues into high places.

One of the main characteristics of Vatican II is its "optimistic", hopeful tone that in many ways has descended into downright pelagianism and universalism. I wonder if this "optimistic" tone is something that is not basically correct however; the argument is that in response to the Counter-Reformation and the exaggerations of the Protestants in regards to justification, the Church's spirituality became too focused on the accuмulation of merit which can potentially go in a Jansenist, depressive, "you're-never-quite-good-enough" direction. This is what all the "nouvelle theologiens" of Vatican II were accusing scholastic theologians of being guilty of: being too bogged-down in a petty legalism that missed the spirit of Christianity by a too obsessive preoccupation with details and distinctions. I think what a lot of the Council fathers were enthusiastic about was a new sense of "life" and "spirit" in the Church after a while of empty ritualism. I am not saying that this is correct however. The Church has always had to deal with these "charismatic" antinomian types from the very beginning, who want to shed all law and ritual and order for "spiritual" anarchy. But it's a matter of finding that golden mean between the two extremes. Having authentic liturgy and sound moral norms but also with a healthy piety and devotion, so that religion doesn't just become routine.

I read a small book by Fr. Lasance .  It is of the Holy Ghost devotions.  It states: "It is particularly a devotion for the latter ages of the Church, and will grow with that sublime augmentation of devotion to Our Lady, which is the prophecies and revelations of holy men and women have announced as the characteristic of  the last saints, who shall precede the Doom, and to be  to the end of the Church what the apostles were at the beginning" (Precious Blood)
 Title: "Come Holy Spirit" 1929

Very good!

Today marks my first day as a sedevacantist. I have finally caved, after years of fighting my conscience.

Here's why:

1. The Novus Ordo Missae was lawfully promulgated. This is a fact. Anyone who does an honest study will come to this conclusion. Yet, the NOM is evil. It's impossible for the Church to promulgate evil liturgy

2. Vatican II should have been protected by UOM - "B-b-b-but it was pastoral" Not according to the official docuмents.

Quote

"Pope" Paul VI
Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding. The rest of the things which the sacred Council sets forth, inasmuch as they are the teaching of the Church's supreme magisterium, ought to be accepted and embraced by each and every one of Christ's faithful according to the mind of the sacred Council. The mind of the Council becomes known either from the matter treated or from its manner of speaking, in accordance with the norms of theological interpretation.

3. New Canonizations - JP2 and John XXIII - If these two guys are saints, JP2 in particular, which one MUST accept if they accept the post-conciliar Popes, what the heck are we doing? You can become a saint promoting Vatican II and the NO. Give it up, guys! What are you resisting? Just get blessed by some animists, pray to buddha, and your on your way to heaven. NOT. A saint he aint. This is a FACT!

4. Novus Ordo Magisterium - This is maybe the strongest argument. You realize that the "Church" now teaches, "infallibility," dual-covenant theology, religious liberty, heretical ecclesiology, rejects EENS, amongst other previously condemned heresies?

Amongst other things. Anyway, it's been fun, R&R. But, I'm done. I'm done with the double-think, faulty logic and nonsense. I reject this false Church and all associated with it.

I see you got past the emotion and embraced the logic.  Bravo  :applause:

Quote from: knish

I don't know the solution. I do know I can't continue lying to myself about these destroyers of the faith.

Always remember that sedevacantism has never claimed to be a "solution".  It is merely the recognition of the true nature of the Crisis.  

A solution will come--how it will come is not something I can predict.  But it is impossible for the Crisis to be resolved as long as the vast majority of Catholics refuse to recognize the problem.  The first step in solving any problem is always to "identify the problem".  

Yes.  SV merely points to the reality and to the root cause in large part to the problems.  It is like pointing out to your family that the restaurant we are in is not the family restaurant we thought it was but something for adults only.  Oops.  We better get out of here.

3. New Canonizations - JP2 and John XXIII - If these two guys are saints, JP2 in particular, which one MUST accept if they accept the post-conciliar Popes, what the heck are we doing?

LOL, that shows you how much I pay attention to the conciliar church happenings, I didn't know John XXIII was declared a saint.

What a joke.