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Author Topic: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position  (Read 9972 times)

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Offline MyrnaM

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Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2017, 01:38:19 PM »
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  • Another person who heretically believes that Catholics can be heretics. Perhaps this is why she considers herself Catholic.
    She refuses to take the time to read for fear she might learn something Catholic written by a True Pope.
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #46 on: November 09, 2017, 01:38:33 PM »
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  • Another person who heretically believes that Catholics can be heretics. Perhaps this is why she considers herself Catholic.

    Silly Pharisede.  :laugh1:

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #47 on: November 09, 2017, 01:45:29 PM »
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  • So you admit that you believe that heretics are Catholics.

    Aren't those who deny even one dogma of the Church considered heretics?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #48 on: November 09, 2017, 01:50:53 PM »
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  • She refuses to take the time to read for fear she might learn something Catholic written by a True Pope.

    Notice that Myrna did not point out where in her lengthy post where it says that the Holy Ghost will ALWAYS be with the Pope, and will guide the Pope and make sure the Pope does not fall into any kind of sin (including heresy).
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #49 on: November 09, 2017, 01:57:22 PM »
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  • Yes. And unless you believe that heretics can be Catholics, a heretic cannot be Pope. Of course, if you believe that heretics can be Catholic, you yourself would not be Catholic. It is a dogma that Heretics are not in the Church.

    Well then, since you obviously deny the dogma that we must be subject to the Pope, then wouldn't that make you a heretic?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #50 on: November 09, 2017, 02:18:49 PM »
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  • LOL. It's funny that you think you got me on this one. You obviously don't know what being subject to the Pope means. If it meant what you think it does and want to apply it to Sedes then you would have to say that everyone who lived in between the death of a Pope and the reelection of another, denied that Dogma. Also, you would have to say that those under the age of or without the use of reason by nature, deny the Dogma, because they don't have the ability to be subject to the Pope, without the use of reason. The problem is that being subject of the Pope is proof that Baptism is necessary. We are made subject to the Pope through our Baptism as Trent defined.

    You seem to think that I'm required to accept the Pharisede definition of being subject to the Pope. Not gonna happen. I know you think that you're superior to all non-Sedes, but you're not.

    :jester:

    You are not subject to the current Pope. Therefore you deny the dogma. Simple.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #51 on: November 09, 2017, 02:26:29 PM »
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  • Prove it. I have, you have not.

    Prove that you are subject to the current Pope. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #52 on: November 09, 2017, 02:33:29 PM »
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  • We do not have a current Pope.

    The dogma that we are required to be subject to the Pope doesn't not give a qualificaton of being able to choose as to whether or not a Pope is a true Pope. We aren't given a choice. The dogma says nothing about that at all. And the dogma does not refer to an interregnum.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #53 on: November 09, 2017, 02:34:07 PM »
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  • Prove that you are subject to the current Pope.
    Meg for you to say you are subject to the CURRENT Francis man, is to disobey all the other TRUE POPES.  Therefore you are subject to nothing Catholic.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #54 on: November 09, 2017, 02:36:36 PM »
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  • Meg for you to say you are subject to the CURRENT Francis man, is to disobey all the other TRUE POPES.  Therefore you are subject to nothing Catholic.  

    Typical Pharisede comment. I'm subject to nothing Catholic because I don't deny that the Pope is the Pope, and therefore I disobey all other Popes. Right.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #55 on: November 09, 2017, 02:38:59 PM »
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  • Where does the Dogma say to be subject to a heretic?

    The dogma says nothing about heresy at all.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #56 on: November 09, 2017, 02:53:21 PM »
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  • Typical Pharisede comment. I'm subject to nothing Catholic because I don't deny that the Pope is the Pope, and therefore I disobey all other Popes. Right.
    Subject to means a situation where you have to obey a rule or a law, by obeying Francis denying the First Commandment, not only are you disobeying God's Divine Law but and past popes who have instructed us according to the teachings of Jesus.

    If you deny what Francis believes you are not subject to him, you just ignore your pope and bad mouth the Vicar of Christ.  

    Which is it?
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #57 on: November 09, 2017, 02:54:48 PM »
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  • 1. What does it mean to be subject to the Pope?
    2. If you don't think it's through Baptism, then who is and isn't subject to him?
    1) You said "being subject to the pope is being subject to God" - that's the only meaning it has for you, crazy but true. There is no other meaning for you - correct?

    2) Catholics are subject to the pope, sedevacantists are not.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #58 on: November 09, 2017, 02:56:31 PM »
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  • .
    This is exactly why women are not to teach!!! YOU LIE AND DISTORT.

    2 Timothy 3:5-7 [5] Having an appearance indeed of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Now these avoid. [6] For of these sort are they who creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, who are led away with divers desires: [7] Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.
    .
    Look at the commentary on verse 12, that you distort; "They are made the children of God by believing and by a new spiritual birth in the sacrament of baptism, … not by the will [desire] of men … but of God, by faith and divine grace.
    .
    George Leo Haydock (1774–1849), scion of an ancient English Catholic Recusant family, was a priest, pastor and Bible scholar.  [HE WAS A FALLIBLE MAN]
    .
    The modus operandi, does not change with the false traditionalists, BOD proponents, using statements of fallible men to destroy statements of infallible men, its beyond insanity.
    .
    Lets take your argument; you say it refers to bloodlines of man i.e. "bloods".  What are bloodlines, i.e. bloods?  They are the blood of ANY man.  Commentary #10-12 is referencing anything related to man i.e. bloods, bloodline, flesh, will, desire, etc does not confer justification, period.  Which goes right back to; baptism of desire or blood of any unbaptized man, it does nothing, faith alone is dead.  This whole argument has been about man and God.  Obedience and disobedience.  The doctrines of men and the doctrines of God, relating to the gateway to the Catholic church.  It has been about what man says is necessary to be a member of the Catholic church and what God has said is necessary to be a member of the Catholic church.  
    .
    Man's Doctrine of membership.
    .
    Baptism of Desire of any man; Baptism of Blood of any man [plurality, bloods]; grants justification.  But hope, [desire], faith alone by itself, is dead.  Its a fallacy.
    .
    Its interesting that you cited commentary on verse 10 and 11.  It talks about disobedience, and those husbandmen who kicked Jesus out of His own family and the few who are saved!  Verse 12, talks about God giving power of disposition [the desire], so that they can be made the adoptive sons of God.  Which directly reflects Session VI, chapters 5 and 6, regarding preparation or disposition.  And they are made adoptive sons, by believing.  What does it mean to believe?
    .
    Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    .
    The verse above is extremely revealing!  It says that mercy is only given to men, who does and keeps the commandments.  The sacrament of Baptism is the mercy and commandment of God.  But by your own comments you have separated mercy from the command of the sacrament of baptism, itself.  And therefore, you continue to deny Trent because Trent says that hope and charity, together, are infused with faith, at once.   Here is your comment below.
    .
    "We all believe the SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM is necessary, but in God's Mercy, He has provided those of FAITH AND DIVINE GRACE [A MEANS OF SALVATION although not the Sacrament] for there is only One Sacrament of Baptism but also the Mercy of God of which you deny."
    .
    There is no better example of double speak, than your comment!
    .
    Here are more demonstrative verses that believing is doing, completing the action of.
    .
    John 10:36-38 [36] Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God? [37] If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. [38] But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.
    .
    Hebrews 13:20-21  [20] And may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great pastor of the sheep, our Lord Jesus Christ, in the blood of the everlasting testament, [21] Fit you in all goodness, that you may do his will; doing in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom is glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    .
    Ecclesiasticus 32:28 He that believeth God, taketh heed to the commandments: …
    .
    John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.
    .
    Matthew 7:21-27  [21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock. [26] And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, [27] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.
    .
    Notice that, it's the doing, the will of God, that is advantageous.  
    .
    Here is God's Doctrine of membership.
    .
    Hope [desire] and charity [laver of regeneration] together, at once, infused with Faith, man becomes adopted sons of God.
    .
    Council of Trent. Session VI.
    .
    CHAPTER IV.
    .
    A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.

    By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration [charity], or the desire [hope] thereof, as it is written; "unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
    .
    Pope Paul III confirms the necessity of both together, hope [desire] and charity [laver of regeneration], at once, in chapter VII of Session VI.  
    .
    CHAPTER VII.
    .
    What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.
    .
    This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.
    .
    Of this Justification the causes are these: the final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting; while the efficient cause is a merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing, and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance; but the meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited Justification for us by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father; the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified; lastly, the alone formal cause is the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just, but that whereby He maketh us just, that, to wit, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and we are not only reputed, but are truly called, and are, just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to every one as He wills, and according to each one's proper disposition and co-operation.
    .
    For, although no one can be just, but he to whom the merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet is this done in the said justification of the impious, when by the merit of that same most holy Passion, the charity of God is poured forth, by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of those that are justified, and is inherent therein: whence, man, through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these (gifts) infused at once, faith, hope, and charity. For faith, unless hope and charity be added thereto, neither unites man perfectly with Christ, nor makes him a living member of His body. For which reason it is most truly said, that Faith without works is dead and profitless; and, In Christ Jesus neither circuмcision, availeth anything, nor uncircuмcision, but faith which worketh by charity. This faith, Catechumen's beg of the Church-agreeably to a tradition of the apostles-previously to the sacrament of Baptism; when they beg for the faith which bestows life everlasting, which, without hope and charity, faith cannot bestow: whence also do they immediately hear that word of Christ; If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Wherefore, when receiving true and Christian justice, they are bidden, immediately on being born again, to preserve it pure and spotless, as the first robe given them through Jesus Christ in lieu of that which Adam, by his disobedience, lost for himself and for us, that so they may bear it before the judgment-seat of our Lord Jesus Christ, and may have life everlasting.
    .
    Take notice in chapter VII, the disposition [desire] itself, does not grant justification, it must be followed by justification itself.
    .
    Pope Julius III, affirms Pope Paul III when he gave the exact and full definition of Justification of the impious. Pope Julius III, omitted the word desire from the laver of regeneration, in Session XIV chapters. 2 and 4.  Why?  Because both desire and the laver of regeneration, together, are necessary.  Because both hope and charity, at once, are infused with Faith.  Faith alone is dead.
    .
    St. John confirms this, in the infallible gospel of St. John.
    .
    John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. [13] Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will [desire] of man, but of God.
    .
    Pope St. Leo the Great.
    .
    Pope St. Leo the Great, Sermon 63: On the Passion (+ c. 460 A.D.): “… from the birth of baptism an unending multitude are born to God, of whom it is said: Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (Jn. 1:13).” (The Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers, Vol. 2, p. 151.)
    .
    STOP YOUR OUTRAGEOUS OBSTINANCE.
    .

    See this is what happens when you have no priest, bishop to guide you!  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
    « Reply #59 on: November 09, 2017, 05:50:36 PM »
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  • Silly Pharisede.  :laugh1:
    Toast is noisy.