Author Topic: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position (Read 11461 times)

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »

Quote from: GJC on November 08, 2017, 08:37:30 AM

It certainly is possible when modernists opt for a "deeper understanding" of Church teaching. This has been clearly obvious over the last few centuries or so.

Where do you think the Novus Ordo sect came from?

The post-Vatican2 orientation (novus ordo) openly rejects the pre-Vatican2 Church. This is a simple observation, it is the rebellious spirit of Vatican2. New theology, new church. The novus ordo practice is nothing less than a public apostasy from the Catholic Faith.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #26 on:** November 08, 2017, 10:46:34 AM »

Quote

I do not see any contradiction between

A: Canon Law 1239.2
Catechumeni qui nulla sua culpa sine baptismo moriantur, baptizatis accensendi sunt.
"Catechumens who, through no fault of their own, die without Baptism, are to be treated as baptized."

and

B: The Athanasian Creed
http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Prayer/Athanasian_Creed.html

The writer must see a contradiction between what he believes and the Athansian Creed because this thread is not about baptism of desire of the catechumen, it is about the denial of the Athanasian Creed. It is obvious that the writer believes like the sede groups and the SSPX teach, that people can be saved without belief in the Holy Trinity and Christ,, without a desire to be baptized, without desire to be a Catholic.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2017, 11:21:57 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on November 08, 2017, 09:40:48 AM

The canon above is what you want to bring forward for BOD. The canon from Braga is the one I want to bring forward in contradiction of yours. Yours says catechumens are to be treated as Baptized, mine says they are not. Which one is correct? Also, who decides whether the catechumen's death was "through no fault of their own"?

From my perspective, this discussion is not about Baptism of Desire, but rather it is about the erroneous notion that the Church would promulgate teachings contrary to Herself. Specifically, I believe it is incorrect to interpret one Truth in a way that makes it contradict another. The proper orientation would be to show how each does not oppose the other. In this specific instance, the manner in which the Church treats a Catechumen who dies before receiving the Sacrament of Baptism, Canon Law would prevail as the Church's teaching on the topic. God, and God alone, would know the circuмstances of the Catechumen's demise.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #28 on:** November 08, 2017, 11:30:34 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 08, 2017, 10:46:34 AM

The writer must see a contradiction between what he believes and the Athansian Creed because this thread is not about baptism of desire of the catechumen, it is about the denial of the Athanasian Creed. It is obvious that the writer believes like the sede groups and the SSPX teach, that people can be saved without belief in the Holy Trinity and Christ,, without a desire to be baptized, without desire to be a Catholic.

Now this is odd, you change the topic to some obvious yet unknown contradiction between what I believe and the Athansian Creed? That nears absurd, but you continue that I believe "like sede groups and the SSPX" that "people can be saved without belief in the Holy Trinity and Christ" and "without a desire to be baptized, without desire to be a Catholic." I have never in my life heard such an outrageous slander. You should reflect on yourself and get a grip on reality.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2017, 11:32:25 AM »

Quote

From my perspective, this discussion is not about Baptism of Desire, but rather it is about the erroneous notion that the Church would promulgate teachings contrary to Herself. Specifically, I believe it is incorrect to interpret one Truth in a way that makes it contradict another. The proper orientation would be to show how each does not oppose the other. In this specific instance, the manner in which the Church treats a Catechumen who dies before receiving the Sacrament of Baptism, Canon Law would prevail as the Church's teaching on the topic. God, and God alone, would know the circuмstances of the Catechumen's demise.

This person keeps harping on BOD of the catechumen, it is obvious now that he is attempting to side track this thread which is not about BOD of the catechumen, but aqbout the denial of the dogmatic Athanasian Creed.

I ask everyone not to respond to him on this thread. Please take this discussion to this thread: Council of Ephesus Quote https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/council-of-ephesus-quote/msg578004/?topicseen#msg578004

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position (Read 11461 times)

JohnAnthonyMarie

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position

Last Tradhican

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position

JohnAnthonyMarie

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position

JohnAnthonyMarie

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position

Last Tradhican

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position