Author Topic: Why I believe they Pope(s) is a heretic, but do not call myself a Sede (Read 13606 times)

MyrnaM · « **Reply #195 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:29:29 PM »

I know you hate to admit it but CMRI was before SSPX, like it or not.

Just as Adam was before Eve. Yet God used them both to multiply the earth.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #196 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:39:16 PM »

It doesn't matter if the CMRI came before the SSPX. Did the CMRI publicly stand up to the Pope? No. Did the CMRI start a big priestly group that had three different Traditional groups spawn off from it? No. And was the CMRI started by a living Saint who endured almost un-imaginable persecution? Again, no. I know you hate to admit it, but the SSPX beats the CMRI on all the accounts I just mentioned, like it or not.

:cool:

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #197 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:56:59 PM »

Well, before CMRI, was Father Gomar DePauw. "God didn't need CMRI" to continue the Mass either.

You either cooperate with God or you don't. CMRI, Archbishop Lefevbre, and Father DePauw, ALL cooperated with God.

To minimize any of their influence is just stupid. The fact that they cooperated with God is why we have the Mass now. The fact that Mary cooperated with God and gave her "fiat" gave us Jesus.

So, let's stop with the "who came first" stupidity already.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #198 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:26:21 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

So, let's stop with the "who came first" stupidity already.

But it is so fun and useful!

MyrnaM · « **Reply #199 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:27:38 PM »

Tell it to Spiritus, that is his fantasy, that SSPX is the only reason why we are graced today. He says it often enough.

I never said God needed CMRI, in fact if you read here, it is I that said, God needs no one to carry out His plan.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #200 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:30:34 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: parentsfortruth
So, let's stop with the "who came first" stupidity already.

But it is so fun and useful!

:roll-laugh1:

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #201 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:35:20 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Tell it to Spiritus, that is his fantasy, that SSPX is the only reason why we are graced today. He says it often enough.

I never said God needed CMRI, in fact if you read here, it is I that said, God needs no one to carry out His plan.

Oh, but that's where you're not exactly correct, though. God DOES need us to cooperate with Him. The best example of this is Our Lady. Had she not said YES, we'd be in trouble, now, wouldn't we?

God gives us free will to cooperate with Him or not. I'm sure when we die, we'll see tons of times where people COULD have cooperated with God, and didn't, and the effects of people saying YES to God and what things would have been like if they hadn't.

And so, God chose the people that did cooperate with Him, but He didn't MAKE them do it. They used their free will to do the right thing, and thank God they had the fortitude and the courage to do so.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #202 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:36:30 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

I have yet to decide if it is a good or a bad thing, but my head seems to be harder than any skillet I have come across :)

LordPhan · « **Reply #203 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:37:39 PM »

Came first as what? An organization whose founder became a Priest AFTER SSPX was formed? And was ordained by a schismatic? Curious, what was the theological training he recieved?

Quote

The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen was formed in 1967 in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, by Francis Schuckardt with the assistance of Denis Chicoine. In 1969, with the approval of Bishop Sylvester Treinen, of the Diocese of Boise, Shuckardt formed the group into a religious congregation of sisters and brothers.

With the implementation of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, Schuckhardt and his group came to the conclusion that Paul VI was not a valid pope and therefore sought services from priests who shared his theological position. In the early 1970s Schuckhardt received ordination as a priest and as a bishop from Daniel Q. Brown, an Old Roman Catholic bishop who apparently converted to Schuckhardt's brand of Catholicism.

In the late 1970s CMRI acquired the old Jesuit scholasticate Mount Saint Michael in Spokane, Washington, making it their congregation's center.

In 1984, Chicoine publicly accused Schuckardt of alleged drug abuse and gross personal immorality, which appeared in the secular press. In June 1984, Chicoine, with the backing of the majority of the congregation's clergy and laity, ousted Schuckardt.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #204 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:51:01 PM »

LordPhan, I suppose you deny Jesus is God too, after all he chose Judas.

I agree with you POT God did need Mary in His plan, which is why He created her FULL OF GRACE. He knew she would say yes, because His grace is powerful.

As far as the others he choose, if they used their freewill wrongly, He choose someone else.

LordPhan · « **Reply #205 on:** June 18, 2011, 05:54:03 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

LordPhan, I suppose you deny Jesus is God too, after all he chose Judas.

I agree with you POT God did need Mary in His plan, which is why He created her FULL OF GRACE. He knew she would say yes, because His grace is powerful.

You should be banned for infering I would deny Jesus is God. Especially infering it from my statement that CMRI was founded by someone who was ordained by a Schismatic of the 'Old Catholics' who would be no more a Bishop then the Archdruid of Canterbury.

As far as I can tell from limited reading just now, there first legitamete Bishop of the CMRI would have came in 1986 and he was Former SSPX.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #206 on:** June 18, 2011, 06:05:26 PM »

For you information you know nothing of the history of CMRI, and Dan Brown, who was a schismatic but took the proper oath, bringing him back into the fold for a time. That is the way God works at times, always showing His power. Later he fell back into his schism, but was in good standing in the eyes of God at the time he ordained Schuckardt, who I admit was not showing proper example from his personal life.

SSPX should understand all that since this is their forever defense for their false popes.

Anyway, at least CMRI takes the faithful out the front door of Vatican II, while SSPX, takes them out and right back in the back door.

Now who can tell us, who came first, the chicken or the egg. I say the chicken because God created the animals before the eggs, at least I think so.

LordPhan · « **Reply #207 on:** June 18, 2011, 06:12:43 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

For you information you know nothing of the history of CMRI, and Dan Brown, who was a schismatic but took the proper oath, bringing him back into the fold for a time. That is the way God works at times, always showing His power. Later he fell back into his schism, but was in good standing in the eyes of God at the time he ordained Schuckardt, who I admit was not showing proper example from his personal life.

SSPX should understand all that since this is their forever defense for their false popes.

Now who can tell us, who came first, the chicken or the egg. I say the chicken because God created the animals before the eggs, at least I think so.

What oath? What oath can a schismatic take to reenter the church? I have never heard this before.

SSPX does not defend the Popes for any of heresy. You have prejudiced yourself furthermore you have still not apologized for your calumny against me.

How dare you accuse me of denying the divinity of Christ? How dare you call me an apostate!?! How would that even cross your mind to use that as an argument?

MyrnaM · « **Reply #208 on:** June 18, 2011, 06:23:08 PM »

Where did I use the word "heresy", I said personal life" as in lifestyle.

Quote

In 1969, Daniel Quilter Brown received Episcopal consecration as an “Old Roman Catholic” bishop.4 Bishop Brown had been born and raised a Catholic, but became disenchanted with the reforms of Vatican II and had chosen to become an Old Roman Catholic bishop in order to perpetuate valid Episcopal orders; realizing that the Old Roman Catholics, unlike the modern post-Conciliar Catholic Church, had not yet fallen into heresy and thus still retained valid Orders.5 Despite the fact that Bishop Brown obtained his consecration in the Old Roman Catholic Church (a schismatic church), he and his followers called themselves Roman Catholics and refused to use the title of “Old Roman Catholic.” Shortly after his consecration, he broke all ties and communications with the Old Roman Catholics.6 Bishop Brown soon became acquainted with Brother Francis and tried to persuade him a accept ordination from him, because “in view of the fact that we cannot exist for long as Catholics without the sacraments, I would propose to ordain to the priesthood a qualified member of your group (from the information I have, this would probably be yourself)...”7 Later he proposed to consecrate Brother Francis to the episcopacy in addition to ordaining him to the priesthood.

Brother Francis sought the advise of some traditional Catholic priests, most notably Fr. Burton Fraser, S.J., about Bishop Brown's proposal. He was told that under the grave circuмstances that currently existed, that it was well within Catholic law and principles to accept consecration. Although the Catholic Church acknowledges the validity of Old Catholics orders, Brother Francis was unwilling to receive orders from Bishop Brown because of the schismatic origins of his consecration.

In the meantime, Bishop Brown openly repented of having received consecration from the Old Roman Catholics, broke all ties with them, made a public “Abjuration of Error and Profession of Faith,” confessed his sins and received absolution from a traditional priest.8 It was only after these events that Brother Francis agreed to receive consecration from Bishop Brown:

NOW YOU HAVE THE TRUTH OF THE STORY

MyrnaM · « **Reply #209 on:** June 18, 2011, 06:28:14 PM »

Quote

SSPX does not defend the Popes for any of heresy. You have prejudiced yourself furthermore you have still not apologized for your calumny against me.

How dare you accuse me of denying the divinity of Christ? How dare you call me an apostate!?! How would that even cross your mind to use that as an argument?

Of course I don't have real evidence you deny Jesus, I used that phrase to get it across that God can pick an apostate like Judas, so why can't He again pick this Dan Brown, a schismatic brought back to the fold. . . to continue His church.
God's ways are not our ways.

I deeply and sincerely apologize.