Whoa!  Disagree with her comment all you like, s2s, but calling the words you quoted HERESY is a wee bit over the top, amigo...

Do you think both sedevacantists and SSPX can be right?  I will answer that for you:  No.  So if only one side is right, doesn't that mean it should try to convince the other side?  Why should truth be accomodating towards error?

I know little about theology, but what I know is that you speak with a destructive spirit. You do not care about the restoration of the Church, you care only about being right, when you can never be right in this time we are in. You continually act as an ignorant fool in your posts who has been brainwashed to think everyone else is brainwashed. How disgusting it is to read what you write.

Do you really think even for a second, gladius, that SSPX might be right?  I know you don't, so why do you rail against "dogmatic" sedes?  

Because it is HERETICAL!

I swear Raoul, every time you post you make me more and more sick. You have taken the intelligence God has given you and used it for evil, plain and simple. It will be on your hands if people read your filth and become 'dogmatic' sedevecantis and become heretics. It can NEVER be more than an opinion until a future counsel proves so.  You condemn men who you've never even met in person, much less know what is in their heart. You have already done that what is to be left to Christ- judged these men and condemned them.

SEDEVECANTISM HAS NEVER BEEN PRONOUNCED A DOGMA OF FAITH. IF YOU ACT OR BELIEVE AS SUCH, YOU THEN HOLD A HERETICAL POSITION, AND ARE TRULY OUTSIDE THE CHURCH.

Only one position can be correct, however, I have hope that God will forgive the errors of SSPX faithful and only God knows who is faithful through no fault of their own, if the sin of pride is involved or deliberate sin against the Holy Ghost He may not be so merciful.  I don't know, just my humble opinion.  

I know God judges us by how much we know according to His grace He bestowed upon us.  

It should be comforting then to know the issue of the pope is secondary to that of the Faith. Do you think many SSPX attendees are sinning against the Holy Ghost?

17. "On account of the distinction as explained [between sedes and sedens], in so far as the Apostolic See can never fail in its permanence by divine right and law, but the individual occupants [sedentes], being mortal, fail at intervals, the APOSTOLIC SEE ITSELF, as the necessary foundation and center of unity of the Church can never be called in doubt without heresy; but it can happen sometimes, in great disturbances, and it is evident from history that it has happened, that many men, while holily keeping the Faith and veneration towards the Apostolic See as true Catholics, without their own fault are not able to acknowledge the one seated in the Apostolic See, and therefore while in no way falling into heresy, slip into schism, which however is not formal but only material.  Thus in the lamentable disturbance throughout forty years, from Urban VI until Gregory XII [the Great Western Schism], Catholics were split into two and then three obediences, as they were then called, while all acknowledged and revered the divine rights of the Apostolic See; nevertheless, not acknowledging the right of the one seated in the Apostolic See, from invincible ignorance of the lawful succession [i.e. as to which claimant was the lawful successor] and thus adhering either to no one, or to a pseudo-pontiff.  Among these, even saints such as St. Vincent Ferrer for a time, and his brother Boniface, a Carthusian Prior, were implicated in material schism." (Ibid. p. 223-4)

Only one position can be correct, however, I have hope that God will forgive the errors of SSPX faithful and only God knows who is faithful through no fault of their own, if the sin of pride is involved or deliberate sin against the Holy Ghost He may not be so merciful.  I don't know, just my humble opinion.  

I know God judges us by how much we know according to His grace He bestowed upon us.

I'm sorry to interrupt my projects in order to say that the above post, aside from backwards comment about God knowing who is faithful through no fault of their own, contains the most outrageous, ignorant and foolish assertions I have yet seen from a sede.  Myrna has surpassed even the infamous Dimonds.  Let me clue you in on something, O Ye Last of the Faithful, the True Feminine Successor to the Apostles, God does not require a Catholic to determine whether the Pope has indeed fallen into heresy and cast himself outside of the Church, and together with him, the entire hierarchy.  Your "humble piety" extending the hope that Catholics are truly invincibly ignorant of your opinion thinly veils extreme ignorance about God, sin and the spiritual life.  If you dare invoke the principle of invincible ignorance regarding this opinion, you necessarily imply that it is a truth necessary for salvation.  Thus, you have added some extra requirement for Catholics to attain salvation beyond holding the virtues.  You have unwittingly defined a dogma of faith.  Now you would have Catholics sift through the docuмents of Councils, Popes and Bishops in order to ascertain what precise heresy they have held, whether it is pertinacious and then determine they have fallen from office.  No more can we be simply Catholics, we must all become learned theologians able to read and comprehend all manner of theological distinctions.  You unwittingly fall into an error similar to the Protestant heresy that reading the Bible is morally necessary for salvation.  Thus, you either demand, for your new Gospel, that we read these docuмents and make a series of judgments about prelates or that we simply rely upon the authority of those who have already judged the matter.  But these priests do not possess the authority to make such a determination as binding upon Catholics.  In short, your opinion is beyond the pale and contains, implicitly at least two heresies.          

Did she say that?  It was far from clear in the words you quoted.

Unless I have a different interpretation of Dogmatic Sedevecantis than most people, which may be true because I'm very novice, what else could I have taken from this?

Raoul actually has been more reasonable on other subjects since he came back. It's his viewpoints on the SSPX and dogmatic sedevacantism that still need work.

FWIW, the CMRI's own party line is decidedly non-dogmatic.

Great post
Raoul,   I never thought of myself as a dogmatic sedvacantist till I started reading the notes on this thread and my eyes are wide opened to the ridiculous claims of those who defend error.

It seems to me in simple terms that SSPX takes one out the front door of VII, only to bring them back in through the back door.  

This is true, I have never ever believed that sede was the only way, for the  only way is to Keep the Faith, but reading this thread, and posts from truly intelligent people, using fancy words, but miss the point. Reminds me of that quote, always learning but never come to realize the truth.  

Keep the Faith, that is the way, do you really believe that the current "popes" are keeping the faith?  Do you really believe that truth and error can exist side by side in a Diving Institution?  Do you really believe that a pope doesn't need to be Catholic, and a true vicar of Christ can mock the Church?

Sorry but I don't.

I am not condemning anyone here to Hell, only God, or better yet, people condemn themselves.  I am sure there are some Catholics in the state of grace within Vatican II, who will be judged, as I said by God, according to His grace given them.  There are many holy SSPX faithful living the lives of saints, I hope, who are keeping the faith.  God knows His own.

What I am saying is people defending the errors of these "Conciliar popes" will have to answer to God, for God is much harder on teachers than your common layperson, I read that in the Bible.

Perhaps I don't know the real meaning of dogmatic sedecantism, and have caused scandal, however if you read my notes again I never said all those outside the sede position are damned.  I am fighting for my  salvation just as you are, but again, both sides in the eyes of God can't be correct because by their own words we have two different religions.  The novus ordo, meaning NEW, UPDATED, MODERN, CURRENT, OF WHICH THESE FELLOWS YOU ARE DEFENDING ARE THEIR POPES.