Author Topic: Why dont churchmen teach that deliberate ѕυιcιdє is a mortal sin? (Read 2024 times)

cassini · « **on:** September 21, 2016, 03:52:08 PM »

I recall once when I was in the throes of depression, getting a laugh from friends when I said 'ѕυιcιdє is not an option as I am a catholic and it teaches it is a mortal sin. As it would be the last thing I did I would go to Hell.'

My understanding as a 50-60s educated Catholic that to deliberately commit ѕυιcιdє was a mortal sin and as it was the very last thing you did you were inviting an eternity in Hell. This was one of the 'hard doctrines' abandoned by the Church of Nice after Vatican II.

Given doctrine doesn't change, why is it still not being taught? How many lives, let alone souls could have been saved if this 'deterrent' was still the practice. Many in depression recover.

I hear priests at the funeral of more and more people committing ѕυιcιdє totally ignoring the Catholic position and sending those who commit ѕυιcιdє straight to heaven.

Yes we know many are 'insane' and are not consciously responsible, but many are perfectly sane and deliberately choose ѕυιcιdє.

Cantarella · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2016, 04:03:58 PM »

The reason behind this is the poisonous "sentimentalism" that surrounds us, the modern dilutor of Catholic doctrine. The existence of Hell is not a dogma that is being preached anymore, in these times when emotions run unbridled and supersede the light of reason. No one wants to hear or accept that a loved one or a very nice "person" who commits ѕυιcιdє is undoubtedly in Hell. Again, as everything else, is a case of love of creatures over love of God, of Revealed Truth. However, the Church had been clear upon that point until Vatican II. She refused burial for people that committed ѕυιcιdє. It was a shame and a disgrace for a family. These people were considered as being eternally lost for having sinned against the Holy Ghost, the sin of Judas, despair.

songbird · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2016, 09:16:45 PM »

Maybe the world wants us to believe in Darwinism, there is no God. We then must die like animals. We get to do whatever we want to do on earth to satisfy our desires. Like a domino affect. No God; anything goes! Very sad! Many people hurt who are the innocent.

Christ told the women, "Don't cry for me but rather for yourselves and your children... how very true and sad.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2016, 03:27:39 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

The reason behind this is the poisonous "sentimentalism" that surrounds us, the modern dilutor of Catholic doctrine. The existence of Hell is not a dogma that is being preached anymore, in these times when emotions run unbridled and supersede the light of reason. No one wants to hear or accept that a loved one or a very nice "person" who commits ѕυιcιdє is undoubtedly in Hell. Again, as everything else, is a case of love of creatures over love of God, of Revealed Truth. However, the Church had been clear upon that point until Vatican II. She refused burial for people that committed ѕυιcιdє. It was a shame and a disgrace for a family. These people were considered as being eternally lost for having sinned against the Holy Ghost, the sin of Judas, despair.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2016, 03:33:39 AM »

Where I attend the doctrine is preached in our Catholic schools, in fact, the soul of the deceased can not even be buried in our Catholic cemetery. There is an area separately fenced off for, if any, offenders to be buried, an area that is not in the consecrated grounds section.

Cato · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2016, 01:53:25 AM »

I saw a video once that said ѕυιcιdє was not a sin in the early Church. But it became a concern when priests would commit ѕυιcιdє after yearning to be close to God. If it wasn't a sin lots of faithful would be taking that path.

tdrev123 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2016, 03:26:55 AM »

Quote from: Cato

I saw a video once that said ѕυιcιdє was not a sin in the early Church. But it became a concern when priests would commit ѕυιcιdє after yearning to be close to God. If it wasn't a sin lots of faithful would be taking that path.

Yes it was a problem because some Catholics wanted to go to heaven straight away and not be led to death by God. I believe St Augustine amongst other early church fathers taught against it, and the church after that always taught against ѕυιcιdє, later in the 6th century or so it was infallibly declared to be sinful.

nctradcath · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2016, 08:41:33 AM »

I could see where it would be a problem. If it were not a sin, people would line up for general confessions and then commit ѕυιcιdє so as to go to heaven straight away and leave this wretched planet.

Miseremini · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2016, 10:10:36 AM »

Quote from: tdrev123

Quote from: Cato
I saw a video once that said ѕυιcιdє was not a sin in the early Church. But it became a concern when priests would commit ѕυιcιdє after yearning to be close to God. If it wasn't a sin lots of faithful would be taking that path.

Yes it was a problem because some Catholics wanted to go to heaven straight away and not be led to death by God. I believe St Augustine amongst other early church fathers taught against it, and the church after that always taught against ѕυιcιdє, later in the 6th century or so it was infallibly declared to be sinful.

I think God declared against it when He said, "Thou shalt not kill".

Judas who was remorseful commited ѕυιcιdє so he didn't sin?????

I don't think so.

tdrev123 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2016, 10:49:25 AM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Quote from: tdrev123
Quote from: Cato
I saw a video once that said ѕυιcιdє was not a sin in the early Church. But it became a concern when priests would commit ѕυιcιdє after yearning to be close to God. If it wasn't a sin lots of faithful would be taking that path.

Yes it was a problem because some Catholics wanted to go to heaven straight away and not be led to death by God. I believe St Augustine amongst other early church fathers taught against it, and the church after that always taught against ѕυιcιdє, later in the 6th century or so it was infallibly declared to be sinful.

I think God declared against it when He said, "Thou shalt not kill".

Judas who was remorseful commited ѕυιcιdє so he didn't sin?????

I don't think so.

It was always a sin, but it wasn't infallibly declared as such until later. I assume you are the one who down voted my post of historical facts, are you some kind of idiot?

Miseremini · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2016, 12:14:30 PM »

You assumed incorrectly. 'Twasn't me. But should I down thumb you for calling me an idiot?

TKGS · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2016, 01:17:30 PM »

I only recall one sermon since I found tradition in which ѕυιcιdє was specifically mentioned and the priest unequivocally declared that it was mortally sinful which was why a Christian burial was not permitted in cases of ѕυιcιdє.

Cato · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2016, 03:14:57 PM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Quote from: tdrev123
Quote from: Cato
I saw a video once that said ѕυιcιdє was not a sin in the early Church. But it became a concern when priests would commit ѕυιcιdє after yearning to be close to God. If it wasn't a sin lots of faithful would be taking that path.

Yes it was a problem because some Catholics wanted to go to heaven straight away and not be led to death by God. I believe St Augustine amongst other early church fathers taught against it, and the church after that always taught against ѕυιcιdє, later in the 6th century or so it was infallibly declared to be sinful.

I think God declared against it when He said, "Thou shalt not kill".

Judas who was remorseful commited ѕυιcιdє so he didn't sin?????

I don't think so.

I believe God said "Thou shall not murder."

Otherwise every soldier, police officer, or man thwarting a home invasion robbery would be guilty. If you want to take the literal English translation, then every butcher, hunter, or person who swats a mosquito who be committing a mortal sin.

Then we can walk around with surgical masks so we don't accidentally inhale a knat like those wandering Hindu holy men.

TKGS · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2016, 04:11:16 PM »

Quote from: Cato

I believe God said "Thou shall not murder."

I hear this a lot but keep wondering why St. Jerome wrote, "non occides", which seems to mean "kill" as opposed to "murder", when he translated Exodus into Latin. I really don't know what is true here, but I will trust St. Jerome and the translators at Douay.

Obviously, the rest of Cato's post is just stupid.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2016, 10:33:57 PM »

Thou shalt not kill (LXX; ?? ?????????), You shall not murder (Hebrew ??? ???????? lo tir?a?)

BOTH are correct.