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Author Topic: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB  (Read 3014 times)

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Offline Texana

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Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
« on: July 24, 2024, 01:07:10 AM »
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    • Why "Father" Williamson but "Archbishop" Vigano? One-hand ordination? Annulments. Saving Trump.

    Houston, is there a Problem?

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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #1 on: July 24, 2024, 04:03:54 AM »
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    • This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:

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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Texana

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #2 on: July 24, 2024, 05:02:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 24, 2024, 04:03:54 AM
    This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:


    Dear Quo vadis Domine,

    Glory to Heaven! And... Thank you. You get a special Ave Maria!
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #3 on: July 24, 2024, 05:03:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Texana on July 24, 2024, 05:02:16 AM
    Dear Quo Vadis,

    Glory to Heaven! And... Thank you. You get a special Ave Maria!

    Thank you!
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #4 on: July 24, 2024, 06:35:33 AM »
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    • Wow.  So, he not only questions Bishop Williamson's consecration, but he also questions his ordination.  I didn't see that coming.  In fact, his viewers didn't ask him about that, but he chose to go there.  And yet he never tells us who his "source" is.  He only refers to him as "that individual". 

    So, according to Fr Jenkins, the SSPV must be the only group who is without doubt, eh?
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #5 on: July 24, 2024, 06:37:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 24, 2024, 04:03:54 AM
    This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:


    Good to see.  But weren't there any pictures?  Videos?  Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
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    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2024, 09:16:09 AM »
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    • Cardinal Joseph Mindszenty was imprisoned by the communists in Budapest in 1948.  While in prison he ordained several priests: no holy oils, no sacred instruments, only lay witnesses, no Mass, no Roman Missal.  Card. Mindszenty had memorized the preface and he imposed the hands and said the words of ordination.  Imagine some person saying, "Well, did he impose one or two hands?"  Really?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #7 on: July 24, 2024, 09:23:38 AM »
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    • Quote
    Good to see.  But weren't there any pictures?  Videos?  Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
    In 1976?  VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders.  Picturewise, what existed then?  Polariods?
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #8 on: July 24, 2024, 10:07:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 24, 2024, 09:23:38 AM
    In 1976?  VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders.  Picturewise, what existed then?  Polariods?
    OK, no video possibility at that time perhaps.  But I grew up in the 70's.  There were most certainly cameras and pictures other than "Polaroids".  Were they used? 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #9 on: July 24, 2024, 10:10:26 AM »
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    There were most certainly cameras and pictures other than "Polaroids".  Were they used? 
    I'm sure they exist, but they aren't exactly "shareable" online.  Someone would have to scan them all into digital format.  
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #10 on: July 24, 2024, 10:26:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 24, 2024, 09:23:38 AM
    In 1976?  VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders.  Picturewise, what existed then?  Polariods?
    Here is a history of home movies. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_movie

    Maybe they didn't have the money to have the equipment.

    And there are companies that digitize old media.

    https://legacybox.com/

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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Texana

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #11 on: July 24, 2024, 10:33:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on July 24, 2024, 06:37:48 AM
    Good to see.  But weren't there any pictures?  Videos?  Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
    Dear 2Vermont,

    In Sacramental Theology, the burden of proof rests with the accuser.  Fr. Jenkins repeats secondhand (hearsay) the testimony of an unnamed person who did not swear to him the veracity of his account.  Quo vadis Domine presented the photo of a handwritten, dated, and signed docuŠ¼ent by a witness to the Ordination.

    Until Fr. Jenkins presents his source as a witness in person, or with similar docuŠ¼entation, the evidence provided by Quo vadis Domine out-weighs Fr. Jenkins' story.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #12 on: July 24, 2024, 10:41:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 24, 2024, 10:10:26 AM
    I'm sure they exist, but they aren't exactly "shareable" online.  Someone would have to scan them all into digital format. 
    And if they exist, they should make it public in that way.  It would put to bed these accusations, no? Wouldn't that be worth the effort?  Or are you against this?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #13 on: July 24, 2024, 10:46:51 AM »
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    And if they exist, they should make it public in that way.
    I doubt there exists photo evidence of the "exact moment" of the laying of hands.  The people who were sitting in the front pews (who could take such pictures) would be priests and I'm sure they were praying and watching, not "capturing the moment" (which is an odd phenomenon only made "normal" in the last 15 years, with the advent of smartphones).


    People just didn't record/take photos back then, like today.  Most photos would've been done AFTER the ceremony, not during.
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    Offline Texana

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    Re: Why "Father" Williamson, but "Archbishop" Vigano? Fr. Jenkins WCB
    « Reply #14 on: July 24, 2024, 10:48:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: OABrownson1876 on July 24, 2024, 09:16:09 AM
    Cardinal Joseph Mindszenty was imprisoned by the communists in Budapest in 1948.  While in prison he ordained several priests: no holy oils, no sacred instruments, only lay witnesses, no Mass, no Roman Missal.  Card. Mindszenty had memorized the preface and he imposed the hands and said the words of ordination.  Imagine some person saying, "Well, did he impose one or two hands?"  Really?
    Dear OABrownson,
    This is an interesting story. Could you please share the source? Thank you.
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