Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Texana on July 24, 2024, 01:07:10 AM
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Why "Father" Williamson but "Archbishop" Vigano? One-hand ordination? Annulments. Saving Trump.
Houston, is there a Problem?
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This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:
(https://i.imgur.com/zv4wl63.jpeg)
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This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:
(https://i.imgur.com/zv4wl63.jpeg)
Dear Quo vadis Domine,
Glory to Heaven! And... Thank you. You get a special Ave Maria!
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Dear Quo Vadis,
Glory to Heaven! And... Thank you. You get a special Ave Maria!
Thank you!
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Wow. So, he not only questions Bishop Williamson's consecration, but he also questions his ordination. I didn't see that coming. In fact, his viewers didn't ask him about that, but he chose to go there. And yet he never tells us who his "source" is. He only refers to him as "that individual".
So, according to Fr Jenkins, the SSPV must be the only group who is without doubt, eh?
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This letter was written back in 2012 by Father Egregyi as an eyewitness to the ordinations in 1976:
(https://i.imgur.com/zv4wl63.jpeg)
Good to see. But weren't there any pictures? Videos? Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
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Cardinal Joseph Mindszenty was imprisoned by the communists in Budapest in 1948. While in prison he ordained several priests: no holy oils, no sacred instruments, only lay witnesses, no Mass, no Roman Missal. Card. Mindszenty had memorized the preface and he imposed the hands and said the words of ordination. Imagine some person saying, "Well, did he impose one or two hands?" Really?
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Good to see. But weren't there any pictures? Videos? Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
In 1976? VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders. Picturewise, what existed then? Polariods?
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In 1976? VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders. Picturewise, what existed then? Polariods?
OK, no video possibility at that time perhaps. But I grew up in the 70's. There were most certainly cameras and pictures other than "Polaroids". Were they used?
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There were most certainly cameras and pictures other than "Polaroids". Were they used?
I'm sure they exist, but they aren't exactly "shareable" online. Someone would have to scan them all into digital format.
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In 1976? VCRs didn't exist, neither did camcorders. Picturewise, what existed then? Polariods?
Here is a history of home movies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_movie
Maybe they didn't have the money to have the equipment.
And there are companies that digitize old media.
https://legacybox.com/
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Good to see. But weren't there any pictures? Videos? Assuming these ordinations was a public event, why wouldn't there be plenty of hard evidence rather than having to take this or that person's word?
Dear 2Vermont,
In Sacramental Theology, the burden of proof rests with the accuser. Fr. Jenkins repeats secondhand (hearsay) the testimony of an unnamed person who did not swear to him the veracity of his account. Quo vadis Domine presented the photo of a handwritten, dated, and signed docuŠ¼ent by a witness to the Ordination.
Until Fr. Jenkins presents his source as a witness in person, or with similar docuŠ¼entation, the evidence provided by Quo vadis Domine out-weighs Fr. Jenkins' story.
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I'm sure they exist, but they aren't exactly "shareable" online. Someone would have to scan them all into digital format.
And if they exist, they should make it public in that way. It would put to bed these accusations, no? Wouldn't that be worth the effort? Or are you against this?
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And if they exist, they should make it public in that way.
I doubt there exists photo evidence of the "exact moment" of the laying of hands. The people who were sitting in the front pews (who could take such pictures) would be priests and I'm sure they were praying and watching, not "capturing the moment" (which is an odd phenomenon only made "normal" in the last 15 years, with the advent of smartphones).
People just didn't record/take photos back then, like today. Most photos would've been done AFTER the ceremony, not during.
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Cardinal Joseph Mindszenty was imprisoned by the communists in Budapest in 1948. While in prison he ordained several priests: no holy oils, no sacred instruments, only lay witnesses, no Mass, no Roman Missal. Card. Mindszenty had memorized the preface and he imposed the hands and said the words of ordination. Imagine some person saying, "Well, did he impose one or two hands?" Really?
Dear OABrownson,
This is an interesting story. Could you please share the source? Thank you.
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Council of Trent: The Council of Trent (1545-1563) defined the essential nature of the imposition of hands for ordination but did not specify that two hands must be used for the sacrament to be valid.
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Fr. Jenkins is trying to spread FUD (fear - uncertainty - doubt) throwing as much shit on the wall as he can, hoping that something will stick.
He doesn't care about the moral implications of these lies and calumnies, because "the ends justify the means" -- as long as it forces people to go to HIS Mass centers, put money in HIS collection plates, and enrich HIM.
A story as old as time. "Eliminate the competition". Heck, that's what Cain did to Abel. Abel had the better sacrifices, God preferred Abel's sacrifices, so Cain figured if he took Abel out, then his own sacrifices would be a bit higher on the totem pole.
Fr. Jenkins is apparently not a holy priest. Just judging by this video. He seems to have some excessive attachment(s) to various worldly things. He is also lacking in trust in God. Why else would he resort to creating videos to tear down other Traditional bishop(s) trying to help the Faithful during this worst-in-history Crisis in the Church? He is obviously motivated by self-love in some form; whether fame, money, comfort, or some combination. One thing for sure: he's not humbly serving God, impartially doing His holy will.
Do you see Bp. Zendejas, or even Bp. Williamson engaging in such attacks on brother (fellow Trad) bishops? No, you do not.
JUDGE A TREE BY ITS FRUITS.
I don't want to hear lies from self-serving, biased sedevacantists against good, holy bishops WHOSE GOOD FRUITS OF THEIR PRIESTHOOD ARE EVIDENT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE.
I am not going to give these worldly priests a platform to attack the good bishop.