Author Topic: Whodat "she" in "Card." Dolans blessing at Inauguration!? (Read 1702 times)

AlligatorDicax · « **on:** January 20, 2017, 03:18:05 PM »

Novus Ordo "Cardinal" Tim Dolan (N.Y.C.)

, in his brief invocation (or somesuch) at the Inauguration shortly before the presidential Oath of Office was taken today, invoked the blessing & protection of a "she" who "knows all things" (or somesuch wording). Not God the Father; not Jesus the Son. And not our Blessed Mother, either.

Of course, Dolan is the nominally Catholic "archbishop" who's most conveniently located to Trump Tower. But he's also a special embarrassment to the Church in the U.S.A., most recently he not only approved, but arguably promoted, organized "gαy pride" marchers who were, of course, determined to appear in the city's 2016 St. Patrick's Day Parade for their own political purposes. So I initially tuned out the words that Dolan delivered from the speaker's podium of the Inauguration platform. But it dawned on me that the pronouns I was hearing from him were unmistakably "she"--not "He". So to whom could he have been appealing?  By then, I'd tuned out too much of it to provide myself an answer. Perhaps to the "Holy Wisdom" customarily personified as the nonexistent woman "Saint" Sophia[×]?

It seems to me that Dolan was the only 1 among 5 broadly Christian clerics or ministers given the honor of public prayer at the Inauguration
not to mention Jesus at all. What was up with that?

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Note +: Born in St. Louis (Mo.): 1950. Received all major clerical orders under Pope Paul VI's New Ordinal: "Ordained deacon": 1975 (age 25); "ordained priest": 1976 (age 26); "ordained bishop": 2001 (age 51½); elevated to "cardinal" (consistory of "Benedict XVI" Ratzinger): 2012 (age 62). <http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bdolan.html>.

Note ×: More revered among Eastern-Rite Christians, the name "Hagia Sophia" of Byzantine architectural fame is properly translated from the Greek as "Holy Wisdom" or "Sacred Wisdom" (or somesuch).

Note #: The other cleric or minister of 6 total (3 before the Oath, and 3 afterwards) was a rabbi. Dolan spoke 1st among all 6.

Cera · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2017, 06:16:17 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Novus Ordo "Cardinal" Tim Dolan (N.Y.C.)
, in his brief invocation (or somesuch) at the Inauguration shortly before the presidential Oath of Office was taken today, invoked the blessing & protection of a "she" who "knows all things" (or somesuch wording). Not God the Father; not Jesus the Son. And not our Blessed Mother, either.

Of course, Dolan is the nominally Catholic "archbishop" who's most conveniently located to Trump Tower. But he's also a special embarrassment to the Church in the U.S.A., most recently he not only approved, but arguably promoted, organized "gαy pride" marchers who were, of course, determined to appear in the city's 2016 St. Patrick's Day Parade for their own political purposes. So I initially tuned out the words that Dolan delivered from the speaker's podium of the Inauguration platform. But it dawned on me that the pronouns I was hearing from him were unmistakably "she"--not "He". So to whom could he have been appealing?  By then, I'd tuned out too much of it to provide myself an answer. Perhaps to the "Holy Wisdom" customarily personified as the nonexistent woman "Saint" Sophia[×]?

It seems to me that Dolan was the only 1 among 5 broadly Christian clerics or ministers given the honor of public prayer at the Inauguration
not to mention Jesus at all. What was up with that?

-------
Note +: Born in St. Louis (Mo.): 1950. Received all major clerical orders under Pope Paul VI's New Ordinal: "Ordained deacon": 1975 (age 25); "ordained priest": 1976 (age 26); "ordained bishop": 2001 (age 51½); elevated to "cardinal" (consistory of "Benedict XVI" Ratzinger): 2012 (age 62). <http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bdolan.html>.

Note ×: More revered among Eastern-Rite Christians, the name "Hagia Sophia" of Byzantine architectural fame is properly translated from the Greek as "Holy Wisdom" or "Sacred Wisdom" (or somesuch).

Note #: The other cleric or minister of 6 total (3 before the Oath, and 3 afterwards) was a rabbi. Dolan spoke 1st among all 6.

I noticed that he failed to mention Jesus at all, but the she got past me -- I'll look at it again. Thanks

Stubborn · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2017, 05:54:06 AM »

"She" is wisdom.

He says that he was reading from the Old Testament, the book of Wisdom.

Quote

Link

New York Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan said the Scripture passage he chose to read at the Jan. 20 inauguration of Donald J. Trump as president—Wisdom chapter 9 in which King Solomon prays for wisdom to lead Israel according to God’s will—was an easy one to make.

klasG4e · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2017, 08:01:23 PM »

Seen on the Internet: "What a missed opportunity to be a witness to Christ. First of all, Dolan crossed himself like a typical catholic on a Saturday afternoon mass dressed in shorts and T shirt. Right then and there I was appalled. Plus he shouldve dressed up a little better. The Orthodox prelate nearby had his official headgear on his head. Then he never mentioned Jesus Christ. The protestants had no problem invoking the name of Our Lord and Savior, but Dolan, who was the only member of the Church that Our Lord founded could not utter his name. Disgraceful."

poche · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2017, 10:25:10 AM »

hodat "she" in "Card." Dolans blessing at Inauguration!?

She who knows all things is the Blessed Virgin

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2017, 05:01:16 PM »

Quote from: poche (Jan 23, 2016, 11:25 am)

~~ hodat ~~ "she" in "Card." Dolan's blessing at Inauguration!?

That's "Whodat", yall, as any true Son of the South should know.

Quote from: poche (Jan 23, 2016, 11:25 am)

She who knows all things is the Blessed Virgin

Ummm, no.  Any well-catechized Catholic who reads the excerpt chosen by Dolan from the Book of Wisdom[/i]

[**] ought to recognize recognize that its words do not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's plainly disqualified:

Quote from: Douay-Rheims Bible per Bp. Challoner (1749--1752)
[9] And thy wisdom with thee, which knoweth thy works, which then also was present when thou madest the world, and knew what was agreeable to thy eyes, and what was right in thy commandments.
[10] Send her out of thy holy heaven, and from the throne of thy majesty, that she may be with me, and may labour with me, that I may know what is acceptable with thee:
[11] For she knoweth and understandeth all things, and shall lead me soberly in my works, and shall preserve me by her power.
The Blessed Virgin Mary was neither present at the Creation, nor is she omniscient.

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Note *: "Book Of Wisdom [,] Chapter 9" (excerpting only its verses 9--11 for attention herein). Interlinear Douay-Rheims Bible + Latin Vulgate.  <http://drbo.org/drl/chapter/25009.htm>. 

Note **: With a tip o'the hat to 'Stubborn', above (Jan 21, 2017, 6:54 am).
Dolan would, of course, have used 1 of the Novus Ordo translations--or paraphrasings--that've been approved by the U.S. Conference of [nominally] Catholic Bishops.

mw2016 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2017, 11:39:10 PM »

I was actually AT the Inauguration, and though I could not hear every single word, I heard Dolan say "she" and I was surprised because I thought he was mentioning the BVM.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2017, 11:47:50 PM »

poche (Jan 23, 2016, 11:25 am) said:
She who knows all things is the Blessed Virgin

Ummm, no. Any well-catechized Catholic who reads the excerpt chosen by Dolan from the Book of Wisdom

[**] ought to recognize recognize that its words do not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's plainly disqualified:

All this from the Book of Wisdom can be seen as a prefiguration of the Blessed Virgin in the beauty of her virtues.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2017, 05:30:24 PM »

Quote from: poche (Jan 25, 2017, 12:47 am)

poche (Jan 23, 2016, 11:25 am) said:
She who knows all things is the Blessed Virgin

 Ummm, no. Any well-catechized Catholic who reads the excerpt chosen by Dolan from the Book of Wisdom ought to recognize that its words do not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's plainly disqualified: 

You didn't write the words, shown above under your name, that I struck thro';  I did:

Quote from: AlligatorDicax (Jan 23, 2016, 6:01 pm)

Ummm, no. 
Any well-catechized Catholic who reads the excerpt chosen by Dolan from the Book of Wisdom[/i]
[**] ought to recognize that its words do not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's plainly disqualified [....]
The Blessed Virgin Mary was neither present at the Creation, nor is she omniscient.

How is it that someone who's made literally 10,604 postings on CathInfo in 54 1/3 months (cf. my 455 postings in 55 1/2 months--practically the same amount of time) seems to have been unable to learn how to use the simple CathInfo "quote" feature?  Is there some reason why clicking on a software-drawn button should be excused as still too challenging for someone who's made 10,604 postings--just counting CathInfo--in only 4 1/2 years?

Oh, wait! 
These Novus Ordo advocates can be really slooow learners.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2017, 07:00:28 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax (Jan 23, 2016, 6:01 pm)

Ummm, no. 
Any well-catechized Catholic who reads the excerpt chosen by Dolan from the Book of Wisdom[/i] ought to recognize that its words do not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's plainly disqualified [....]
The Blessed Virgin Mary was neither present at the Creation, nor is she omniscient.

By now, I suppose I should've known to expect the stubbornly nonresponsive reply that was submitted, which cited no supporting sources whatsoever, never mind citing any credible authorities:

Quote from: poche (Jan 25, 2017, 12:47 am)

All this from the Book of Wisdom can be seen as a prefiguration of the Blessed Virgin in the beauty of her virtues.

No. Again. 

I know that in recommending that CathInfo members open a Bible to the Book of Wisdom and actually read from it, that it might sound too much like recommending study--or even WO-ORK!--but verses 6:12--9:18  don't need to be pondered for very long at all before recognizing the Person whom it prefigures:

Quote from: Francis Gigot in Catholic Encyclopedia (1912)

In direct relation to God, Wisdom is personified, and her nature, attributes, and operation are no less than Divine. She is with God from eternity, the partner of His throne, and the sharer of His thoughts (viii, 3; ix, 4, 9). She is an emanation from His glory (vii, 25), the brightness of His everlasting light and the mirror of His power and goodness (vii, 26). Wisdom is one, and yet can do everything; although immutable, she makes all things new (vii, 27), with an activity greater than any motion (vii, 23). When God formed the world, Wisdom was present (ix, 9), and she gives to men all the virtues which they need in every station and condition of life (vii, 27; viii, 21; x, 1, 21; xi). Wisdom is also identified with the "Word" of God (ix, 1; etc.), and is represented as immanent with the "Holy Spirit", to whom a Divine nature and Divine operations are likewise ascribed (i, 5-7; vii, 22, 23; ix, 17). Exalted doctrines such as these stand in a vital connection with the New Testament revelation of the mystery of the Blessed Trinity [....][**]

I trust that readers have seen a white dove depicted from time to time in Catholic art, and realized that it's many centuries old, so therefore not Novus Ordo inculturation from the big 1969 hippie-rock hit "White Bird"[×], right?

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Note **: Francis Gigot 1912: "Book Of Wisdom" § "Doctrine of the book".  The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 15.  <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15666a.htm>.  Especially § "Doctrine of the book".  <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15666a.htm#section7>. (The Web page as displayed does not indicate its numbering of sections, e.g., §7.)

Note ×: By the San Francisco band "It's A Beautiful Day". Released in a big year for novelty from the Novus Ordo.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2017, 07:49:16 PM »

Proverbs 8 is always used as an archtype of the BVM (Seat of Wisdom) by the Church on Marian Feast days.
It states that she ( Wisdom) was conceived- so it couldn't be the Uncreated Most Holy Trinity. No matter how you define conceived, it connotates a "beginning".

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways, before he made any thing from the beginning.

23 I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made.

24 The depths were not as yet, and I was already conceived. neither had the fountains of waters as yet sprung out:

25 The mountains with their huge bulk had not as yet been established: before the hills I was brought forth:

26 He had not yet made the earth, nor the rivers, nor the poles of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was present: when with a certain law and compass he enclosed the depths:

28 When he established the sky above, and poised the fountains of waters:

29 When he compassed the sea with its bounds, and set a law to the waters that they should not pass their limits: when be balanced the foundations of the earth;

30 I was with him forming all things: and was delighted every day, playing before him at all times;

31 Playing in the world: and my delights were to be with the children of men.

32 Now therefore, ye children, hear me: Blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, and that watcheth daily at my gates, and waiteth at the posts of my doors.

35 He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:

36 But he that shall sin against me, shall hurt his own soul. All that hate me love death.
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition