Author Topic: Who ordains CMRI priests?  (Read 33896 times)

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Online Geremia

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Who ordains CMRI priests?
« on: October 28, 2014, 02:35:01 PM »
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  • Who has ordained CMRI priests? I heard some of them trace their lineages to Old Catholics. Is this true?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 03:33:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Who has ordained CMRI priests? I heard some of them trace their lineages to Old Catholics. Is this true?


    A fallen away Catholic who became an Old Catholic Bishop (I don't remember his name) ordained the founder of CMRI, Francis Schuckardt. A few days later, the same bishop consecrated Schuckardt a Bishop.

    Schuckardt has been judged so you can probably google the scandals levied against him during his time as CMRI's founder and chief without my help, suffice to say I won't comment on those scandals, but I will say from what I remember, that what was known of him in trad circles back in the day was all terrible.

    CMRI's current head, Bishop Mark Pivarunas studied for 6 or 7 years as Brother  Tarsisus (sp?) under Schuckardt before his ordination.

    Bishop Pivarunas was consecrated by a Bishop who was consecrated by Archbishop Thuc. I assume Bishop Pivarunas does the ordinations for CMRI.

     

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse


    Offline TKGS

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 03:40:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Who has ordained CMRI priests? I heard some of them trace their lineages to Old Catholics. Is this true?


    It is true that a few of the older priests had originally been ordained by a bishop who was consecrated by the Old Catholics.  All of the priests who had been so ordained were conditionally ordained by a traditional Roman Catholic bishop at a later time.  All of the priests since those original priests have been ordained by traditional Catholic Bishops and Bishop Pivarunas usually (if not always) ordains deacons and priests for the CMRI now.

    Bishop Pivarunas recounted the sad history of these events in one of the Fatima Conferences, though I do not remember which one.

    If you go to the traditional Catholic Sermons page linked below, you can scroll down to the Fatima Conferences and listen to the talks by Bishop Pivarunas.  In one of the conferences, His Excellency goes into great detail concerning the lineage of the CMRI priests and the early history of the CMRI, information concerning Archbishop Thuc, and other important topics.
    http://www.traditionalcatholicsermons.org/index_files/CMRI_Archives.htm

    Do not listen to the deceivers who want to contaminate people's minds in regards to the CMRI--many of who post regularly here on CathInfo.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 05:19:07 PM »
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  • I never heard of this author, don't know when this was written and don't know if he writes the truth or not, but he sounds authentic - perhaps some CMRIers can chime in and tell us about him. At any rate, reading this article might be of interest in this thread:

    The Truth About Bishop Francis Schuckardt
    - written by Bishop Joseph Marie, who was himself consecrated a bishop by Bishop Francis Schuckardt.


    Quote
    In the 29 years that I personally knew Bishop Schuckardt, I’ve heard and read many things about him, very little of which was true. Some fabricate allegations against him and some canonize him; they both violate the truth. As is often the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. My intention in writing this article is to tell the whole and unvarnished truth about him. I will not indulge in exaggerated and false accusations against him nor in fanciful virtues that he didn’t possess; I will simply tell that which I know to be the truth.



    The final paragraph of the article states:

    Quote

    To the new CMRI: Your organization was founded upon ecclesiastical crimes and consequently cannot possibly be part of the Catholic Church: “He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber.” You too, like Bishop Schuckardt and Fr. Chicoine, will die, and you have not yet even begun to make restitution for your crimes. While you have time, put things in order. You still have an opportunity to change evil into good – don’t let that opportunity pass you by.


    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 05:29:21 PM »
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  • "You will know them by their fruits"...

    The fruits of CMRI meaning results have proven to be Blessed by God, like the Catholic Church from day one, has had one crisis after another, but always Divinely protected, so too today.

     CMRI is part of the remnant Church, whether you like it or not.  



    Offline Cantarella

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 05:55:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    "You will know them by their fruits"...

    The fruits of CMRI meaning results have proven to be Blessed by God, like the Catholic Church from day one, has had one crisis after another, but always Divinely protected, so too today.

     CMRI is part of the remnant Church, whether you like it or not.  



    Fact remains that CMRI operates outside the Catholic Church. For anyone that actually understands Catholicism, this is actually a big deal. Schismatics cults such as CMRI are pernicious and dangerous to souls. Jurisdiction comes from the authority which is wielded by the Pope, and held by the Church (Bishops). In the case of CMRI, they respond to no one but an invisible, made up hierarchy. It is only "smells and bells" with no real apostolicity, one of the four marks of the True Church.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Matto

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 06:14:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Fact remains that CMRI operates outside the Catholic Church.


    Where is the Catholic Church today? Do you mean the conciliar sect?
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Mabel

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 06:33:26 PM »
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  • Bp.Mark Pivarunas does the ordinations. You can read what his lines are, which do not go through the Old Catholics. He doesn't claim any authority or jurisdiction, he just helps people and dispenses the sacraments.

    You can read several histories of what happened with their rocky start. The important thing to know is that they did rectify the situation. There really is no reason to bring up Shukhardt unless you just hate the CMRI for no reason, most of the priests currently associated with CMRI were very young when the whole thing happened, some were even children. It is borderline moronic to say they are the same organization, or that they are at fault.

    Since I see the CMRI haters are abounding in this thread, I will just throw in some good words about them to make up for the unjust and malicious statements.

    When I was very sick after my third baby and could not travel for baptism, a CMRI priest travelled to me after an 8 hour flight. I've seen them go without sleep or meals for sick calls, after flying and driving for several hours, and then they still say mass. Other priests give away nearly all they have for the poor.

    Still, the viciousness and hatred of their opponents demonstrates the priests' humility and sacrifice all the more.

    I'll leave it to the reader to decide which is the better imitation of Our Lord and His saints.


    Offline andysloan

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 06:47:41 PM »
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  • TKGS said:

    "Do not listen to the deceivers who want to contaminate people's minds in regards to the CMRI--many of who post regularly here on CathInfo. "



    I think the "deceivers" have an ineluctable case:


       

    Romans 11:16


    "For if the firstfruit be holy, so is the lump also: and if the root be holy, so are the branches."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schuckardt



    Vatican 1: session 4



    Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs

        That which our Lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time.

        For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 07:04:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Fact remains that CMRI operates outside the Catholic Church.


    Where is the Catholic Church today? Do you mean the conciliar sect?


    Of course that is what she means, that's where her pope is.    :facepalm:

    Offline Cantarella

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 07:13:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Fact remains that CMRI operates outside the Catholic Church.


    Where is the Catholic Church today? Do you mean the conciliar sect?


    The Catholic Church that Christ founded 2000 years ago whose earthly head is the Roman Pontiff and whose hierarchy has been infiltrated by liberals, infidels and freemasons. If one refers to the "Conciliar Church" or the "Novus Ordo” Church and one means by that an institution headed by Pope Francis, but not the Catholic Church, then one is a schismatic. There is only one Church, not two.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 07:27:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    He doesn't claim any authority or jurisdiction, he just helps people and dispenses the sacraments.


    Then, the Sacraments are not real, they are all made up. There is more consistency in sedevacantists that stay at home alone on Sundays than the ones that attend counterfeit sects in which there is all "pretend" but no supernatural grace is really given because they are outside the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ. Sorry, but philanthropic and charitable acts do not equal supernatural power to consecrate the Body of Jesus or confer all the other Divine Sacraments, needed for salvation.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 07:51:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Fact remains that CMRI operates outside the Catholic Church.


    Where is the Catholic Church today? Do you mean the conciliar sect?


    The Catholic Church that Christ founded 2000 years ago whose earthly head is the Roman Pontiff and whose hierarchy has been infiltrated by liberals, infidels and freemasons. If one refers to the "Conciliar Church" or the "Novus Ordo” Church and one means by that an institution headed by Pope Francis, but not the Catholic Church, then one is a schismatic. There is only one Church, not two.


    And your pope belongs to both... that sounds heretical.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 07:53:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Mabel
    He doesn't claim any authority or jurisdiction, he just helps people and dispenses the sacraments.


    Then, the Sacraments are not real, they are all made up. There is more consistency in sedevacantists that stay at home alone on Sundays than the ones that attend counterfeit sects in which there is all "pretend" but no supernatural grace is really given because they are outside the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ. Sorry, but philanthropic and charitable acts do not equal supernatural power to consecrate the Body of Jesus or confer all the other Divine Sacraments, needed for salvation.


    Just because our Bishop doesn't go around claiming jurisdiction, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.    God in Heaven has that under control, have a little faith.

    Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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    Who ordains CMRI priests?
    « Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 08:24:09 PM »
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  • I have heard, seen and experienced nothing but good fruits, sound doctrine and wonderful Christian charity from the clergy (and laity) of CMRI.  They're as Catholic as the "pope" (as my grandfather would say back in the day) - LOL.

    CMRI detractors are just bitter, sad, and somewhat hopeless people, willing to fall for the devil's hopeless and defeatist attitude towards the current ecclesiastical catastrophe.

    Pray for them.  :pray:


     

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