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Author Topic: Which Mass to assist at??  (Read 1023 times)

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Offline Todd The Trad

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Which Mass to assist at??
« on: September 27, 2021, 02:21:33 PM »
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    • Hello everyone. My name is Todd and I am from Columbus, Ohio. I am new here. I would like to ask for everyone's advice. I consider myself a traditional Catholic. I reject the novus ordo and would never attend. I also believe the second vatican council must be abandoned. Currently, I attend daily mass at an exclusively TLM oratory run by ICKSP. I would much prefer to attend an SSPX or Independent chapel, however the Institute Mass is the only TLM close enough to me. However, I recently discovered a local independent chapel run by a Father James Theilen, who was ordained by Bishop Carmona. He is a sedevacantist. I believe he's associated in some way with CMRI. I attended this Mass last Sunday and liked it. Now, I am not a sedevacantist, although I'm not completely against the possibility. Which Mass do you guys think I should assist at? I could attend both but I'm thinking the sede priest would not allow me to receive communion if I also attend ICKSP? I haven't been able to speak to him yet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to getting to know all if you! :)
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 02:43:37 PM »
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    • Hi, Todd. Welcome to CI.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 02:46:27 PM »
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    • Welcome aboard.  I don't know much about that priest in particular, but some aren't as rigorous as others about assisting at other Masses.

    I've been to Columbus some weekends, and there's indeed a shortage of Tridentine Masses there.  I ended up going to a Melkite Rite church for Sunday Mass.  Their music/singing is a bit strange, but otherwise a Liturgy from the Eastern Rite family.  I thought the priest there gave very good homilies.
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    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 02:49:45 PM »
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    • Thank you. I forgot to mention , I do attend a local Melkite and Byzantine parish on occasion. 
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #4 on: September 27, 2021, 04:11:03 PM »
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    • If you have easier access to an Eastern Rite, then I would seriously consider that option. Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with receiving the sacraments at a sede chapel, they're still validly ordained priests and their situation isn't really all that different from a Resistance or even SSPX priest when it comes to communion with Rome. They're just going to eliminate Francis from the Canon when they say Mass, which is more on the priest than on those in attendance.
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #5 on: September 27, 2021, 05:00:59 PM »
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    • I wouldn’t call debating which Mass to attend as a “shortage” of Masses!  Be thankful you can choose between at least two!  Where I’m at, there are none.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #6 on: September 27, 2021, 09:14:01 PM »
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    • We know Fr. Theilen. We had him in our home, Peoria, AZ 15 years ago.  We look up to him.  
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #7 on: September 27, 2021, 09:27:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on September 27, 2021, 05:00:59 PM
    I wouldn’t call debating which Mass to attend as a “shortage” of Masses!  Be thankful you can choose between at least two!  Where I’m at, there are none.
    This ^
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    Offline Clarity

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #8 on: September 28, 2021, 06:00:29 AM »
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    • Any thoughts regarding assisting at an FSSP mass even though they are under the umbrella of the conciliar church? Opinions would be greatly appricated.
     

     
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    Offline Bataar

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #9 on: September 28, 2021, 10:52:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Clarity on September 28, 2021, 06:00:29 AM
    Any thoughts regarding assisting at an FSSP mass even though they are under the umbrella of the conciliar church? Opinions would be greatly appricated.
     

     
    There is the question as to if FSSP priests are actually validly ordained. FSSP doesn't have their own bishops like SSPX so every FSSP priest, while they themselves are ordained in the traditional right, the bishop that ordained them was consecrated a bishop using Paul VI's possibly invalid rite. If the bishop isn't a valid bishop, than any ordinations he does are invalid as well. 

    Some people believe without a doubt that Novus Ordo bishops are invalid due to the new rite. I'm not that firm, but I do question it. I'm not going to say with 100% certainty that the FSSP priests are not valid, but I do question their validity.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 01:52:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clarity on September 28, 2021, 06:00:29 AM
    Any thoughts regarding assisting at an FSSP mass even though they are under the umbrella of the conciliar church? Opinions would be greatly appricated.
    Aside from the reasons given above by Bataar, I know Fr. Hesse and Fr. Wathen were very much against attendance at the indults, as were some others I cannot think of their names at the moment.

    Fr. Wathen said:

    "People should know that attending the Indult Mass represents a very serious compromise of their faith. Before a bishop allows the Traditional Latin Mass in one of his Novus Ordo churches, according to papal direction, he exacts this commitment: Those to whom the Mass is made available must give a verbal acceptance to the Second Vatican Council and to the new mass.

     Whether they know it or not, everyone who attends the Indult Mass makes the same implicit commitment. In the days of the Rome persecutions, a Catholic could escape martyrdom if he would burn the tiniest pinch of incense before one of the countless Roman gods. The commitment which the pope and bishops require is that pinch of incense."
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 04:02:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Bataar on September 28, 2021, 10:52:01 AM
    Some people believe without a doubt that Novus Ordo bishops are invalid due to the new rite. I'm not that firm, but I do question it. I'm not going to say with 100% certainty that the FSSP priests are not valid, but I do question their validity.
    Yeah, that's about where I stand. It's not worth the spiritual risk now that I have this doubt, so I avoid all NO priests for the Sacraments.
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    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 05:29:17 PM »
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    • I am not very familiar with father Hesse(I just now discovered him) however I came across this quote, supposedly from him, on another forum. I don't know if he changed his opinion on this or not, but he states that it's ok to attend FSSP or ICKSP if that's all that's close...

    "The reason I mention them (FSSP and ICKSP) is to explain to you why I want you, if it is possible, to attend the Masses of Saint Pius X... If you happen to live near a chapel of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, and a chapel of the SSPX is two hours away, of course you are allowed to go, provided it is not the indult Mass and they do not provide communion in the hand there. Or if you live around the corner of the indult Mass, and they do not commit sacrilege there, you are allowed to go there, but I warn you there are two dangers: First of all, in their sermons, you cannot be sure you will get the Doctrine of the Church. With the SSPX, even if the sermon there is boring, it will never be against the Doctrine of the Church. With the indult Mass, and even the FSSP, there is a probability that they will tell you the truth, but you don't know."

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    Offline Clarity

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    Re: Which Mass to assist at??
    « Reply #13 on: September 28, 2021, 09:54:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 28, 2021, 01:52:41 PM
    Aside from the reasons given above by Bataar, I know Fr. Hesse and Fr. Wathen were very much against attendance at the indults, as were some others I cannot think of their names at the moment.

    Fr. Wathen said:

    "People should know that attending the Indult Mass represents a very serious compromise of their faith. Before a bishop allows the Traditional Latin Mass in one of his Novus Ordo churches, according to papal direction, he exacts this commitment: Those to whom the Mass is made available must give a verbal acceptance to the Second Vatican Council and to the new mass.

     Whether they know it or not, everyone who attends the Indult Mass makes the same implicit commitment. In the days of the Rome persecutions, a Catholic could escape martyrdom if he would burn the tiniest pinch of incense before one of the countless Roman gods. The commitment which the pope and bishops require is that pinch of incense."
                                                                           J.M.J.

    Thank you for responding. I am aware of the Indult Mass issues and are in full agreement with you. I was referring to the FSSP quasi church that I have been attending. I do not believe they would be considered Indult masses as far as I understand. 

    There is an SSPX chapel some distance away which is fine for me. However I was told some families have left (not confirmed 100% why as yet.) Anyone familiar with St. Jude's in Eddystone? 

    I have placed everything in the Blessed Mothers hands. Mother Mary show the way....
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