Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Gray2023 on July 15, 2024, 01:33:08 PM
-
Just Curious. For "other" please share in the comments, if you feel comfortable.
-
Does the group you prefer to receive the Sacraments from have to necessarily be the group with whose positions you agree? I don't think so, and believe they are separate questions. And is the question generically about some group? I write this because sometimes you find a priest whom you consider holy, pious, a good confessors, etc. ... with whom you may not necessarily agree on all their positions. That has in fact been my case. I haven't always been too fond of many of the clergy who happen to align with my own doctrinal positions and, for the purposes of receiving the Sacraments, think of specific priests rather than as "groups", since one does not receive the Sacraments from a group, but from a specific individual priest.
-
SAJM (+ Zendejas)
-
SAJM (+ Zendejas)
I didn't realize that was a separate category. Do +Zendejas and +Williiamson not work together anymore?
-
Does the group you prefer to receive the Sacraments from have to necessarily be the group with whose positions you agree? I don't think so, and believe they are separate questions. And is the question generically about some group? I write this because sometimes you find a priest whom you consider holy, pious, a good confessors, etc. ... with whom you may not necessarily agree on all their positions. That has in fact been my case. I haven't always been too fond of many of the clergy who happen to align with my own doctrinal positions and, for the purposes of receiving the Sacraments, think of specific priests rather than as "groups", since one does not receive the Sacraments from a group, but from a specific individual priest.
This is just a question to get a feel for what the CathInfo community looks like generically. The last two questions were designed for people if the couldn't really pick a group. I hope this answered your question, if not, please help me understand better.
-
I didn't realize that was a separate category. Do +Zendejas and +Williiamson not work together anymore?
They are friends, but Bishiop Williamson does not lead any organization. It is a sperate category, such as the Dominicans of Avrellie are a separate entity than the Benedictines of Santa Cruz, and they are separate than SAJM, yet they collaborate with each other and are on friendly terms, but each one is its own separate entity, with their own separate leadership.
-
I will receive sacraments wherever they are not doubful.
However, as I profess the rigourist interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, priests of the SSPV would never knowlingly administer sacraments to me.
Further, because I, although sedeprivationist in my ecclesiology, have no scruple in attending una cuм Masses and do in fact attend such Masses, some sede clergy would refuse me communion or unction if they knew this.
-
They are friends, but Bishiop Williamson does not lead any organization. It is a sperate category, such as the Dominicans of Avrellie are a separate entity than the Benedictines of Santa Cruz, and they are separate than SAJM, yet they collaborate with each other and are on friendly terms, but each one is its own separate entity, with their own separate leadership.
I get what you are saying. I would edit my post, but I don't know how. I would change that example to friends of +Williamson.
-
I will receive sacraments wherever they are not doubful.
However, as I profess the rigourist interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, priests of the SSPV would never knowlingly administer sacraments to me.
Further, because I, although sedeprivationist in my ecclesiology, have no scruple in attending una cuм Masses and do in fact attend such Masses, some sede clergy would refuse me communion or unction if they knew this.
I also think that the wisest course is to hide your convictions regarding the "Pope issue". Folks are very passionate about it, and don't hesitate to excommunicate their "enemies".
-
I also think that the wisest course is to hide your convictions regarding the "Pope issue". Folks are very passionate about it, and don't hesitate to excommunicate their "enemies".
We shouldn't think of each other as "enemies" and I don't know why people won't work on doing that? Am I missing something?
-
We shouldn't think of each other as "enemies" and I don't know why people won't work on doing that? Am I missing something?
It's the Traditionalist clergy that needs to hear this.
I have no enemies in Traddieland.
-
It's the Traditionalist clergy that needs to hear this.
I have no enemies in Traddieland.
Agree. The devil knows that by "working" on the clergy, he can profit more than attacking individual lay people.
-
Agree. The devil knows that by "working" on the clergy, he can profit more than attacking individual lay people.
I agree. But I wrote this letter
https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/the-tears-of-a-traditional-catholic-mother/
and was told not to bother the clergy.
I think we all have to do our part. We have enough books and examples of Saints, to ready ourselves for Spiritual Warfare. If you are with God, who can be against you. Make sure you are praying your Rosary, offering all your trials of your day, and getting to the True Sacraments as often as possible. We should help each other in the process, not bring each other down.
-
I will receive sacraments wherever they are not doubful.
Same.
-
I agree. But I wrote this letter
https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/the-tears-of-a-traditional-catholic-mother/
and was told not to bother the clergy.
I think we all have to do our part. We have enough books and examples of Saints, to ready ourselves for Spiritual Warfare. If you are with God, who can be against you. Make sure you are praying your Rosary, offering all your trials of your day, and getting to the True Sacraments as often as possible. We should help each other in the process, not bring each other down.
I agree that you should not bother the clergy. They are running the show, they are more knowledgeable that most of us, and they have all that is necessary to understand that they should not be excluding people because of what they think about the Pope. You don't have to be a genius to figure it out. It only takes a little humility.
When I said that they "need to hear it", it was not to be taken literally. I am not one inclined to lecture people above me.
On the topic, I go to the SSPX merely for convenience. I would go elsewhere, as long as the sacraments were valid.
-
I agree that you should not bother the clergy. They are running the show, they are more knowledgeable that most of us, and they have all that is necessary to understand that they should not be excluding people because of what they think about the Pope. You don't have to be a genius to figure it out. It only takes a little humility.
When I said that they "need to hear it", it was not to be taken literally. I am not one inclined to lecture people above me.
On the topic, I go to the SSPX merely for convenience. I would go elsewhere, as long as the sacraments were valid.
And I guess that is always the answer, do nothing but pray. How has that worked for 60+ years? I sat on the side line watching family after family fall apart. We should just accept all the fallout from this Spiritual War without a fight? I am sorry to address this to you, but maybe men should start saying we have had enough. Yes clergy might understand things better, but Charity must come first in all things, I am not sure we have seen much of that.
-
And I guess that is always the answer, do nothing but pray. How has that worked for 60+ years? I sat on the side line watching family after family fall apart. We should just accept all the fallout from this Spiritual War without a fight? I am sorry to address this to you, but maybe men should start saying we have had enough. Yes clergy might understand things better, but Charity must come first in all things, I am not sure we have seen much of that.
Judging from the other posts that I've read, you seem to have a personality that tends to act. I am probably on the other side of the spectrum. So, we need to exercise the virtue of prudence.
As I see it, it is useless to talk to the clergy about their mistakes. Look what happened to the SSPX in 2012. They did not listen to Bp. Williamson. Do you really think that they would listen to us?
-
Judging from the other posts that I've read, you seem to have a personality that tends to act. I am probably on the other side of the spectrum. So, we need to exercise the virtue of prudence.
As I see it, it is useless to talk to the clergy about their mistakes. Look what happened to the SSPX in 2012. They did not listen to Bp. Williamson. Do you really think that they would listen to us?
Maybe, who knows which seed will be the ones that grows.
And if this Crisis didn't become a problem for my son to try out a Seminary, then I would have left it all alone.
-
And I guess that is always the answer, do nothing but pray. How has that worked for 60+ years?
It's worked as God has intended it to work. The fact that Traditionalism exists at all (even though fractured) is a miracle. Every possible thing is against Traditionalism - new-rome, politics, culture, Trad infighting, lack of authority, and the devil himself- yet it persists. That's the work of God.
I sat on the side line watching family after family fall apart. We should just accept all the fallout from this Spiritual War without a fight?
Everyone has free will. I've seen my family fall apart too, but they chose their path and God will let them choose it. No amount of prayer will interfere with free will. God will use your prayers to convert others and for the Church.
I am sorry to address this to you, but maybe men should start saying we have had enough. Yes clergy might understand things better, but Charity must come first in all things, I am not sure we have seen much of that.
Certain things can only be fixed by God, and the Church is one of them. So is society and culture. And politics. If these 4 things aren't catholic, then life is going to be hard. No amount of fortitude, hard work, or "having enough" can repair such damage.
God is allowing some of this chaos for a long-term goal. Part of humility is to accept our limits. God appreciates your zeal but it must be balanced with prudence.
-
It's worked as God has intended it to work. The fact that Traditionalism exists at all (even though fractured) is a miracle. Every possible thing is against Traditionalism - new-rome, politics, culture, Trad infighting, lack of authority, and the devil himself- yet it persists. That's the work of God.
Everyone has free will. I've seen my family fall apart too, but they chose their path and God will let them choose it. No amount of prayer will interfere with free will. God will use your prayers to convert others and for the Church.
Certain things can only be fixed by God, and the Church is one of them. So is society and culture. And politics. If these 4 things aren't catholic, then life is going to be hard. No amount of fortitude, hard work, or "having enough" can repair such damage.
God is allowing some of this chaos for a long-term goal. Part of humility is to accept our limits. God appreciates your zeal but it must be balanced with prudence.
I agree with what you say.
Most of the time God uses people, who with their free will, get things done on earth. My main point has always been, work on yourself, conquer your vices, pray, and do penance. I think most people are not equipped to do God's will because they are not listening to the Holy Ghost. They are too busy debating (though a good debate sharpens the mind) things they can't do anything about, like politics, the shape of the earth, what priest is saying what, what grand scheme the Jews are plotting, etc (I fall in these traps as well). Prudence doesn't mean do nothing, it means choose a path you believe is Godly, have no regrets, and move on.
-
I agree with what you say.
Most of the time God uses people, who with their free will, get things done on earth. My main point has always been, work on yourself, conquer your vices, pray, and do penance. I think most people are not equipped to do God's will because they are not listening to the Holy Ghost. They are too busy debating (though a good debate sharpens the mind) things they can't do anything about, like politics, the shape of the earth, what priest is saying what, what grand scheme the Jews are plotting, etc (I fall in these traps as well). Prudence doesn't mean do nothing, it means choose a path you believe is Godly, have no regrets, and move on.
Sometimes, prudence does indeed mean "do nothing". The alternative is Pelagianism.
-
Sometimes, prudence does indeed mean "do nothing". The alternative is Pelagianism.
Yes. A balanced approach to life is best. The best plan of action is to fix yourself with God's help. I guess I just feel so many people are distracting themselves from their own vices, and focusing on other's vices. (Maybe I am doing the same thing.)
-
Most of the time God uses people, who with their free will, get things done on earth.
Yes, but it has to be the RIGHT people, who have the skills, authority, etc to do the specific job. Not everyone has a calling (or skills) to fix everything.
My main point has always been, work on yourself, conquer your vices, pray, and do penance.
This is in contradiction to your earlier statements about "sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing". What you describe above is not nothing. It's everything.
I think most people are not equipped to do God's will because they are not listening to the Holy Ghost.
Outside of Traditionalism, I agree. Inside of it, I don't agree.
They are too busy debating (though a good debate sharpens the mind) things they can't do anything about, like politics, the shape of the earth, what priest is saying what, what grand scheme the Jєωs are plotting, etc (I fall in these traps as well).
There's nothing wrong with debating in your spare time. Don't blame Trads (0.00001% of the population) for the problems of society (i.e. pagan/protestant culture). Not fair.
Prudence doesn't mean do nothing, it means choose a path you believe is Godly, have no regrets, and move on.
Prudence means doing what you're supposed to do, and also realizing your limits, and what's beyond your control.
-
Yes, but it has to be the RIGHT people, who have the skills, authority, etc to do the specific job. Not everyone has a calling (or skills) to fix everything.
True
This is in contradiction to your earlier statements about "sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing". What you describe above is not nothing. It's everything.
For my personal situation I did do nothing for a very long time.
Prudence is the goal, but people come at it from different vices.
One side is overly cautious, which is where I started, possibly I have gone too far the other way, but I am still a work in progress. The other side is too rash.
Outside of Traditionalism, I agree. Inside of it, I don't agree.
There's nothing wrong with debating in your spare time. Don't blame Trads (0.00001% of the population) for the problems of society (i.e. pagan/protestant culture). Not fair.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with debating. I do think that we have the responsibility to be good Catholic examples in all things. Being a Melancholic, I am always trying for perfection and then I have high expectations of others, maybe too high.
Prudence means doing what you're supposed to do, and also realizing your limits, and what's beyond your control.
True
-
Baptism, Holy Communion, Confirmation, wedding has been novus Ordo.
Confirmation 2 Thuc line.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/WwX5wKq.png)
-
I will receive sacraments wherever they are not doubful.
However, as I profess the rigourist interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, priests of the SSPV would never knowlingly administer sacraments to me.
Further, because I, although sedeprivationist in my ecclesiology, have no scruple in attending una cuм Masses and do in fact attend such Masses, some sede clergy would refuse me communion or unction if they knew this.
Well said, ElwinRansom1970. Same here. 👍
-
4 days until poll closes. Thank you for participating.
-
Father Hewko, if unavailable, home-alone it.
-
Father Hewko, if unavailable, home-alone it.
Is this some kind of weird joke, like your profile image?
-
Is this some kind of weird joke, like your profile image?
Some people are just loyal fans of one particular priest.::)
-
We shouldn't think of each other as "enemies" and I don't know why people won't work on doing that? Am I missing something?
There's a saying that traditional Catholics are the only fighters who get into circle formation and start shooting.
-
Father Hewko, if unavailable, home-alone it.
That's what I thought.
I hope that's just a joke, but I'm not surprised if it isn't.
-
Father Hewko, if unavailable, home-alone it.
Just wondering if the profile photo is Fr. Hewko. If so, what’s with the glowing red eyeballs?
-
RCI
CMRI
SGG
-
There's a saying that traditional Catholics are the only fighters who get into circle formation and start shooting.
And in fact it's been perfected to an art form by trads. No one does it better than trads.
-
And in fact it's been perfected to an art form by trads. No one does it better than trads.
Oh, the irony.
-
Just wondering if the profile photo is Fr. Hewko. If so, what’s with the glowing red eyeballs?
That is what happens when he spots Pablo coming.
-
That is what happens when he spots Pablo coming.
:laugh1:
-
That's what I thought.
I hope that's just a joke, but I'm not surprised if it isn't.
It’s not a joke. Aside from Fr. Hewko and Fr. Ruis, they are the only SSPX priests who continue not to compromise with modernist Rome. There may be only about ten other priests and one archbishop (recorded online) who have not compromised, are not silent on important issues, and are theologically sound.
-
It’s not a joke. Aside from Fr. Hewko and Fr. Ruis, they are the only SSPX priests who continue not to compromise with modernist Rome. There may be only about ten other priests and one archbishop (recorded online) who have not compromised, are not silent on important issues, and are theologically sound.
I disagree. I also disagree with your advice (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/which-group/msg945994/#msg945994) if "Father Hewko is unavailable, home-alone it." I think that advice is scandalous.