You're the heretic, Clemens Maria, denying what Church Doctors call de fide dogmas, and Popes have authorized as safe to teach.
You cannot debate BOD fairly. There's a separate subforum for that. Both Myrna and 2 Vermont also believe in BOD, as do the SSPV, the CMRI and all the sedevacantist groups. So it's just your selective hatred of me in particular that leads to your gravely sinful calumny.
With regard to the BoD topic, I do disagree with Clemens (and the Dimonds) that someone who holds BoD is a heretic. Opining in favor of BoD has clearly been permitted by the Church. If the Church had declared as a Doctor of the Church someone (i.e. St. Alphonsus) who taught heresy, then that too would be a blemish on the Church's mark of Holiness.
Now, I think it's permissible to argue that BoD is in fact OBJECTIVELY heretical, but to consider someone a heretic who's outside the Church, when the Church has tolerated the opinion and even canonized and declared a Doctor someone who taught it, I believe that to be a schismatic attitude. That is the chief point on which I distance myself from the Dimonds. I don't agree with everything they argue, but on this point, I feel that they have crossed a line.
St. Thomas Aquinas taught something that was OBJECTIVELY heretical about the Immaculate Conception. So it's not impossible for a Doctor to hold an objectively heretical opinion before it has been defined. But that didn't make St. Thomas a heretic in the strict sense, because the dogma had not yet been defined. Since defined dogmas are truths that were revealed from the beginning, the position of St. Thomas was objectively heretical even when he taught it, but absent the definition, there can't be heresy in the strict sense.
So, Xavier, I disagree with you calling Clemens a heretic also. If anything, the rejection of communion with those whom the Church has not rejected (i.e. holders and teachers of the BoD position) entails schism. St. Alphonsus had the opinion that its denial was heretical, but he's in the minority among Catholic theologians, and his position also does not suffice to remove someone from the Church ... not until the Church intervenes and clearly defines that the rejection of BoD is heretical. So this does cut both ways, Xavier.
With regard to schism, however, Xavier, I feel to see how your adherence to the SSPX, a group not in communion with the Holy See, is schismatic, since you have presented no argument that prevents you in conscience from going with an FSSP, ICK, or even Eastern Rite group.
So, in my opinion, neither of you can be considered heretics in the strict sense, but both of you IMO are in danger of being schismatic.
Clemens, please reconsider whether BoD could be heretical in the strict sense. How can this be said other than in a merely OBJECTIVE way since the Church declared St. Alphonsus a Doctor? If someone (say, Duns Scotus) had told St. Thomas when he was writing that "your opinion on the Immaculate Conception is heretical," he would in fact have been correct. But had that person refused St. Thomas communion on that account, then he would have crossed over into schism. Do you see the difference here?
Topic: Where is the Apostolic Church with Her Four Marks today? (Read 2359 times)