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Author Topic: Where have all the children gone?  (Read 5637 times)

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Where have all the children gone?
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 12:08:41 PM »
Quote from: Arvinger
Quote from: Pax Vobis
I'm not saying to avoid dating novus ordo-ites, but...(and i've had plenty of personal experience in this area)...trying to find one that will convert to tradition is just as hard as finding a trad to marry.  Most novus ordo catholics are happy where they are; they don't want to have quarrels in their family; they don't want to be different; they want a 'normal' life.  Also, the pope is like their god-given oracle, so they won't leave him.


Exactly, this is why I wrote that dating Novus Ordo/Indult Catholic carries a risk of compromising one's faith. So:

a) if you try to marry within Tradition, you are likely to never find a spouse because there are so few Trad Catholic singles
b) if you try to marry Novus Ordo/Indult Catholic you are likely to compromise your faith and eventually blend into the Novus Ordo

Either way, Tradition is demographically doomed.


I will say this if you please, take it for what it's worth.  My experience with my own now grown children and now grandchildren starting to pair off.  Several found people outside the church and they happen to find a someone that was not attached to any religion, sort of maybe agnostic type people by that I mean those who were not believers of anything but they were not negative about whether you believed or not.  

They were married by a priest and soon converted to our faith after, everyone one so far, which amounts to 3 couples.

My granddaughter's spouse was baptized Catholic as a baby but never learned anything about the faith for his parents completely fell away, no denomination of any sort.  Just living!  He when speaking to the priest was very interested and converted before they married; when he told his parents, their attitude was...(whatever makes you happy, do it.) Today they have one baby boy who was baptized at the Mount.  

When I was in 7th grade the nun told the class to pray one Hail Mary each day for the person we would marry.  I did that and married an agnostic, after over 50 years of marriage when he died 4 years ago he had already accepted the faith 20 years prior to his death; God allowed him to have all the sacraments including the apostolic blessing hours prior to his death.  I heard him faintly say the name of Jesus when during the blessing he was asked to say the name of Jesus. He passed away the following morning.  

My suggestion is those of you who are still raising children, teach them to pray one Hail Mary for the person whoever it is they marry.  Sometimes we seem to be paired off with someone who at the time doesn't fit, and sometimes I have seen couples who were both brought up in the faith, and they both leave it together taking their children with them to only God knows what.  

The entire point is, we must marry according to God's will, because many times even the perfect marriage goes to perdition while other matches that were not the ideal turn out to please God after all.  

Where have all the children gone?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2017, 04:57:28 AM »
For the devil, there are many ways to skin the cat, so let's start putting together his methods for taking the young away from our chapels (the true faith LIVED), as I observed the last 20 +years in tradition. These are some ways mentioned so far, and my quick observations:

Quote from: Ekim
Hard to have a "foundation " when everything and everyone calling themselves Catholic all contradict each other.  Vatican II contradicts all of its predecessors.  Francis the same.  Novus Ordo and Tradition both claim to be heirs to the throne of Peter. +Fellay contradicts +Lefebvre, Sedes contradict Recognize and Resist, now we have "Resistance".  Even apparitions prophecies, including Fatima, seem to drag on for centuries.

People I know who were raised in good Catholic families who were well catechised throw up their hands....and say enough is enough.  I'm just going to follow my heart.


It is the parents fault. They didn't bother to seek truth and their children ill prepared, continue in the same path.

Quote from: Pax Vobis
Statistically, trad young adults are just as infected with 'the world' as any other young adult population.  As atheism is growing, so a small % of trads will be infected with this and their Faith will become lax and they may stop going to church for a while.  I've seen this more than a few times.

As the indult grows, a large % will leave tradition and attend this.  At our chapel, we've lost about 70% of one generation to the indult.  Young adults, who haven't read anything about V2 or the new mass, who only care about social media, get duped by the 'positive and happy' novus ordo-ites who think that "the latin mass is coming back!  Everything's going to be rosy".  Plus, the millenial generation cannot stand to be an "outsider" or "different", as they want to be "part of the group" just like on facebook.  They compromise their faith because of human respect.  ...Or they started dating novus ordo/indult catholics and didn't want to 'rock the boat' by trying to convert them to tradition.  So they compromised and went to the indult, for love.

Then, there's the normal % of trads who have just given into a partying/fun life.  They may still go to mass, but their faith is very weak.  A good percentage of these will 'grow up' and become decent catholics at some point.  But, some will not.

Finally, there are some who have kept the Faith, lived 'boring' lives, are looked at as 'old fashioned' and who have grown in virtue.  These are small in number but they are a great example.

Really, aren't the above 4 categories consistant with the parable of the "Sower of the Seed"?


One more, giant reason they leave a chapel is for work in another town.

Here are some more reasons from my experience watching parents do it wrong, and I blame the parents for the children's loss of the faith (if they ever really received it)

- the parents themselves are lax examples in some area or in many; in clothing (immodesty), in the way they think girls can attract men, in bending the rules, in not paying attention to their children by just watching out for themselves (the parents could be very religious, but they pay no attention to their children). The family is like a fort to protect the family from the enemy, the world, the devil. Some trad families have forts with only three walls completed, the world can easily come and go inside as it pleases. Some families have four walls, however, they are too low, again the world can get in easily. Some parents have high thick strong walls, howver, they leave the gates open.

It takes a fort with high thick walls and the gates constantly manned and the leaders (the parents and the older children who were raised in the good fort) always on the alert and up to date of new techniques of the devil.

In my experience, scant few parents care or are prepared for the battle. Most trads are naive to the world (and lazy), just want their priest and SSPX schools to take care of their children.

Like I said above, a big reason the young people leave the chapels is to find work. The reason for this is that in the USA (that is where I live, though I was not born here) American parents are like snakes. They lay their eggs, and the children are left to fend for themselves to learn an occupation. Naturally, the children will leave the house and go find work out of town and then start a family and lay their own eggs, and the cycle will continue.

In Italy, Spain, and South America as examples (Catholic cultures) the father teaches his sons the business, and the sons stay with the family. The mothers teach the girls to cook and take care of the family, and do work the women can do, like the accounting for the family business. American parents let their children play, while they cook and work, never passing on any knowledge to their children, strictly letting the schools do it.


Where have all the children gone?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2017, 05:12:50 AM »
Quote
the parents themselves are lax examples in some area or in many; in clothing (immodesty), in the way they think girls can attract men, in bending the rules,


Mothers teaching their daughters by example and word that the way to attract men is to show some skin and being "sexy". Once the girls learn this, they are dead. They will be ruined for life, scarcely any will escape this life sentence. You see them today everywhere, 30-80 year old mothers still dressing to "attract men".

Where have all the children gone?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2017, 05:41:46 AM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican

Like I said above, a big reason the young people leave the chapels is to find work. The reason for this is that in the USA (that is where I live, though I was not born here) American parents are like snakes. They lay their eggs, and the children are left to fend for themselves to learn an occupation. Naturally, the children will leave the house and go find work out of town and then start a family and lay their own eggs, and the cycle will continue.

In Italy, Spain, and South America as examples (Catholic cultures) the father teaches his sons the business, and the sons stay with the family. The mothers teach the girls to cook and take care of the family, and do work the women can do, like the accounting for the family business. American parents let their children play, while they cook and work, never passing on any knowledge to their children, strictly letting the schools do it.


This is a false (romantic) image of Italy and I suspect Spain. Italy has very little left of the old ways and their situation is probably far worse than the US.  The unemployment is disastrous and skills are fast being lost or are already lost. The ignorance of the Faith in Italy is appalling. It is largely a sentimental luxury to be indulged in in certain events, like Baptisms and Confirmations which are celebrated in a most secular way. Besides the Italians rarely have more than one (spoilt) child. Just compare fertilty rates: Italy - 1.43 births/woman; Spain 1.32; USA - 2.06.

Where have all the children gone?
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2017, 05:49:44 AM »
I do not agree with the "Catholic Bunker" philosophy, although we must keep our home a Catholic Oasis from this world.  Children must have roots and wings.  Roots in the Holy Catholic faith and wings to spread that faith as Christ sees fit. I've seen many bunker kids go all out nuts once they became adults.  There has to be moderation and child specific guidance.  Bolting the doors and throwing the key away is not the answer.

The theory that they move away to find jobs seems more like an excuse.  While this may be true, they could just simply repopulate another chapel.  During decades of military service and more moves than I can count, my family and I have always found the True Mass.  A loss in one chapel should be a gain in another.

+ Williamson once said "Modesty is the guardian of purity" a point well made regarding our little ladies, and big girls too.