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Poll

Simple Question: Does the OUM exist or has it died, defected or disappeared some time ago?

The OUM has completely died out and no longer exists.
0 (0%)
The OUM entirely defected and apostatized some time ago.
1 (6.3%)
The OUM may or may not exist, but it has disappeared and is invisible.
0 (0%)
The OUM continues in orthodox Catholic Bishops appointed by the Pope.
2 (12.5%)
The OUM can be found among Bishops without habitual ordinary jurisdiction.
6 (37.5%)
Other (please explain)
7 (43.8%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: Where Exactly is the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium of the Church Today?  (Read 14157 times)

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This ^^^ is novus ordo thinking, but if it were true, then we are all bound under pain of mortal sin to be novus ordo.  

Just fwiw, whenever the Church speaks of anything "universal", "universal" always includes time as well as unanimity, as in "since the time of the Apostles and forever", and as in "always and everywhere". As such, the idea that today's hierarchy is "universal" or a "universal anything" only adds to the confusion.

In order to maintain clear thinking whenever speaking of the Church's Universal Magisterium, always reference Pope Pius IX's meaning:

"...all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - Pope Pius IX, Tuas Libenter

Hopefully this answers the thread's title question for you.
This doesn't answer the question.  The indefectibility of the Church isn't constrained to a book of official teachings (doctrine); it also pertains to a living magisterium (and other things).  

Your poll choices demonstrate that you not only know nothing about the OUM and what it actually is, but also that you lack any understanding of the current crisis.  You believe that the mere existence of the OUM is all that matters, even if it has defected from teaching truth.
So who comprises the OUM of the Church according to you? 


It is actually something more than just novus ordo thinking, it's more like a novus ordo doctrine that the hierarchy is itself, the (indefectible) universal magisterium. The Church's magisterium has been made into a completely confused idea, it's to the point that I have only seen a very few who got it correct, most do exactly what the OP did - which would make 1) the teaching of today's NO hierarchy ("universal magisterium") true Catholic teaching - which necessarily would make 2) 2000 years of the Church's Universal Magisterium (prior to V2) all lies.

Because it would go contrary to the NO narrative, point #2 is always non-existent in this novus ordo doctrine.  
  
Even the Wikipedia the Jew-Encyclopedia is honest enough as to recognise the second requirement, and yet most Novus Ordites aren't. However, the Magisterium refers not only to the Church's ancient teachings but also to the teaching authority of the Church and those who have it. That being the hierarchy of the Church, whom the indefectibility promise also applies to. If almost the entirety of the Church's hierarchy, including the Pope, teach heresy for decades - is that not defection? Xavier's question still stands, where is the legitimate teaching body of the Church? Does it rest in the hands of Pope Francis and his Liberal goons? Bishops in the SSPX, or the Thuc line, or... etc.

Offline Ladislaus

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So who comprises the OUM of the Church according to you?

Do you mean who exercises the OUM?

That is clearly defined by Vatican I.  Pope and the bishops teaching unanimously in union with him, when they teach something as being de fide, cannot err.

Do you mean who exercises the OUM?

That is clearly defined by Vatican I.  Pope and the bishops teaching unanimously in union with him, when they teach something as being de fide, cannot err.
Right. Who are these people presently.