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Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?

Heaven.
Purgatory.
Hell.
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Offline poche

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Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2017, 12:06:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on October 10, 2017, 01:54:21 AM
    HOW.
    IS.
    IT.
    RELEVANT?

    Do you sincerely not get the difference between a thing being, and being applicable/RELEVANT to another thing?

    I'll grant you, for the sake of discussion and further clarity, that it is absolutely and unarguably, coram Deo, God's struth.

    Now that we've that out of the way, ...


    SO
    WHAT?
    This is a Catholic forum. Sometimes it is useful to see what the Catholic Church itself has to say about a subject. It would be very difficult to find a better source of information than the Baltimore Catechism.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #16 on: October 11, 2017, 12:12:30 AM »
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #17 on: October 13, 2017, 11:58:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 09, 2017, 01:59:36 AM
    From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
    A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church
    Your quotes are not relevant to the discussion because the OP says the person died a heretic. 


     

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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #18 on: October 13, 2017, 12:00:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 09, 2017, 11:08:39 PM
    The tradition of the Catholic Church says that, barring a revelation from God, we do not know for sure where they or anybody else for that matter goes when they die.  
    That is a modernist tool, a stepping stone to ecuмenism.

    The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:
     
    “It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #19 on: October 13, 2017, 12:05:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 13, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
    That is a modernist tool, a stepping stone to ecuмenism.

    The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:
     
    “It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.
    You've "met" poche before, right?

    "But you can't judge the state of his soul! He coulda (insert some vague, internal forum "mysterium perfide" here)!"

    "We don't know that he died as an infidel! He could have been saved at death!"

    (Yeah, I know... the old "saved at death" schtick)
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 12:39:17 PM »
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #21 on: October 14, 2017, 12:09:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 13, 2017, 11:58:05 AM
    Your quotes are not relevant to the discussion because the OP says the person died a heretic.


     
    If the person's heresy resulted from invincible ignorance then it is possible that he was saved.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #22 on: October 14, 2017, 01:28:51 AM »
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    • See?
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #23 on: October 14, 2017, 09:42:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 14, 2017, 12:09:11 AM
    If the person's heresy resulted from invincible ignorance then it is possible that he was saved.
    The OP says the person died as a heretic. Your comment is irrelevant.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline poche

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #24 on: October 14, 2017, 11:13:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 14, 2017, 09:42:55 AM
    The OP says the person died as a heretic. Your comment is irrelevant.
    The Catholic Church teaches that if the person did not know that his heresy was a false teaching and his ignorance was invincible then when he died God's judgement would take that situation into account and he could very well be saved.   
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #25 on: October 15, 2017, 02:55:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 14, 2017, 11:13:42 PM
    The Catholic Church teaches that if the person did not know that his heresy was a false teaching and his ignorance was invincible then when he died God's judgement would take that situation into account and he could very well be saved.  
    Link/s please.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #26 on: October 15, 2017, 04:09:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 13, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
    That is a modernist tool, a stepping stone to ecuмenism.

    The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:
     
    “It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.
    I got my quotes form the Baltimore Catechism. It was written long before Vatican II. It is an authoritative text on what the Catholic Church teaches. Generations of Catholics have been brought up on the Baltimore Catechism. I would suggest that we would have a lot fewer problems if more people studied the Baltimore Catechism. 
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #27 on: October 15, 2017, 04:10:53 AM »
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    • Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
    A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church
    Quote from: DZ PLEASE on October 15, 2017, 02:55:05 AM
    Link/s please.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #28 on: October 15, 2017, 04:16:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 15, 2017, 04:10:53 AM
    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
    A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where Does a Heretic go After God's Judgement?
    « Reply #29 on: October 15, 2017, 02:06:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 11, 2017, 12:06:47 AM
    This is a Catholic forum. Sometimes it is useful to see what the Catholic Church itself has to say about a subject. It would be very difficult to find a better source of information than the Baltimore Catechism.

    Yes, the Catholic Church has spoken very clearly on the subject, thank you, by way of solemn dogmatic definition (Papal Bull Cantate Domino):

    Quote
     The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that ... [no] heretics ... can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her;

    Dogma.  Ex Cathedra.
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