Author Topic: When Sedevacantism gets ugly: Pope Augustine (Read 7886 times)

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2009, 06:52:10 PM »

Quote from: ChantCD

When Sedevacantism gets ugly: Pope Augustine

Antipope Augustine.

SJB · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2009, 07:01:25 PM »

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2009, 07:02:45 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Quote from: ChantCD
When Sedevacantism gets ugly: Pope Augustine

Antipope Augustine.

Yes, of course.

I don't like to use quotes in my titles, however.

Caminus · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM »

Quote

This is hardly "where sedevacantism leads".

Why not? If they feel compelled to judge the entire hierarchy to be formal heretics and apostates that have abdicated their respective offices, why would they not logically respond by electing another Pope? If justice demands the former, why not the latter? Do they not really care about the common good of the Church? Are they content with deposing clerics leaving the Church headless and bodiless? Since they alone are the ones who see the true nature of the problem and are objectively the sum total of the Catholic Church, why would not the self-same Catholic Church elect duly appointed leaders? This man is doing the Catholic Church a great service by attempting to finally bring this crisis to an end!

CM · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2009, 08:30:26 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

...leaving the Church headless and bodiless?

The Church is never headless or bodiless, even if it were possible for it become so on earth. In fact, we know that the Church on earth can be 'headless' insomuch as the position of the earthly head, the Vicar of Jesus Christ, is now and has been very often vacant, for varying lengths of time.

Quote from: Caminus

This man is doing the Catholic Church a great service by attempting to finally bring this crisis to an end!

Hahaha! This man used to masquerade as a Catholic, while in fact was a Calvinist. He admitted to this once, then retracted and said "Oh now I really am Catholic, and I really do think I am pope!", then he went all Calvinist again, and then retracted again... I give it a matter of weeks at most before he begins to spout anti-Scriptural and Traditional Protestant doctrine once more.

roscoe · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2009, 11:56:26 PM »

This has to be some trick by Classicom as he was the one who thought Greg XVI was the last True Pope.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:20:52 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Once you declare there is no Pope (and usually, no Church as well), it's up to your personality, personal virtue, tendencies, etc. to decide what you'll do with that information.

One couldn't do the same thing to me (re: SSPX) because either they're faithfully following the SSPX, or they aren't. If they aren't, they're not SSPX. See what I'm saying?

Is the SSPX the Church?

Once you declare that BXVI IS the Pope (that the V2 Popes were/are legit), it's up to you to decide which disciplines, liturgy, etc., you will and will not follow?!?!

Btw, I just did the "same thing" to you. See what I'm saying?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:26:16 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Sedevacantism can be very dangerous.

So can following men who travel deep into the forests of Africa to visit and "pray with" VooDoo practitioners, etc.

Get over it. These days are just plain dangerous.

Caminus · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:58:13 AM »

He didn't follow him there, that's why he is where he is. Just a catholic, nothing more nothing less. Same here. Novus Ordos and SV's are just simplistic answers to complex problems. The true Catholic position is always transcendent and nuanced.

Caminus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:00:54 AM »

But I agree about dangerous times, that's why making extremely unnecessary and dangerous judgments only compounds the problem. Either you are right or wrong, there is no shade or hue in between. Eternity is at stake and the chance of delusion is great.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:03:55 AM »

Matthew, Matthew... Still don't know the difference between a sedevacantist and a Feeneyite? Or are you pretending not to know?

If you really want to knock a sedevacantist, you'll have to stick with Pope Michael. I admit, he is pretty funny. Reminds me of another joke. Have you heard the one about the third order who believe a true Pope can provide invalid sacraments and heretical doctrine, and that they can then disobey this man while claiming to believe in papal infallibility?

What's really funnier, that this man is Pope:

Or that this man was Pope:

Both are about equally "amusing." But at least one of them seems halfway well-meaning.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:14:34 AM »

Make that FORMER sedevacantist, in the case of Pope Michael. He does not believe the throne is empty now that he claims to sit in it.

I'd sympathize you Matthew if you just went to SSPX because it's a valid mass, you have a large family, and there is nowhere else to go in your area. This seems to be exactly what happened with John Lane, though a relation of his in Australia avoids SSPX and has sedevacantist priests fly out occasionally.

So I should ask -- is it possible for you to go to a sedevacantist priest? Are you within range of a CMRI chapel? Is it choice or necessity that puts you in the unfortunate position of attacking a theological position that is blatantly more solid and tenable than your own?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:17:45 AM »

Quote from: Caminus

He didn't follow him there, that's why he is where he is. Just a catholic, nothing more nothing less. Same here.

Of course he did not follow him there, nor approve of what he did, etc.

Nor do I approve of "Pope Michael", etc.

It cuts BOTH WAYS: THAT is the point.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:27:17 AM »

Quote from: Caminus

Just a catholic, nothing more nothing less. Same here...

Well, so am I. We just disagree about some things during this crazy time. C'est la vie.

You have to admit the way he framed his original post, it was begging to be sliced up. The SSPX, for all its merit, is not the same thing as the Church.