The diocesan indult parish has put this week’s bulletin online.  I’m always curious as to what time they will have Midnight Mass on Christmas.  This year, Midnight Mass will be at 8:00 pm on Christmas Eve.  At 10:00 pm, they will have the Anglican service.  Finally, at Midnight, they will have the Lutheran service…I mean, the Novus Ordo.  They will also have a Novus Ordo at 4:30 in the afternoon.  This is the first time in a long time that they will actually have a service at Midnight (even if it’s the Novus Ordo), but I think it’s because they now have the Anglican Use at that parish and it would be hard to fit all the various services in limited amount of time on Christmas Eve.

If it's not at midnight it doesn't really count as the sunday obligation.

I thought it was strange when they started having midnight mass at 10:00 pm, 2 hours early.  So I asked about it and was informed that it was too inconvenient for parishioners to get a good night's sleep on such a busy day as Christmas when Mass doesn't start until midnight.

When the indult parish here first started celebrating the traditional Mass at 10:00 pm a few years ago, friends of mine ask the pastor.  They reported that the FSSP priest told them that the Missal does not say that it is "midnight Mass", rather, it calls it "The first Mass at Night", so as long as Mass is celebrated after sundown, it's perfectly ok and in accord with tradition.  Plus, the laity really liked the earlier Mass time.  

In years past, "The first Mass at Night" has been scheduled as early as 8:00 pm.  The parish has also, on special occasions, celebrated an anticipatory Sunday traditional Mass.  The only time I specifically remember hearing about was a Saturday evening traditional Mass the day before the running of the Indianapolis 500 so that parishioners could go to the "TLM" and the Race!

The Indult parish has a spectacular high altar and double rails etc, but a night time Mass is just a Mass for that day. I don't think in fairness they advertise it as fulfilling a Christmas obligation. Their canon lawyers priests (2/5) could not abide that sort of looseness. A Sunday Mass has to be that.

I would bet that an indult parish that celebrates a Sunday Mass (or a Holy Day Mass) the evening before would most certainly apply the same rules as the Novus Ordo in regards to whether or not that Mass "fulfills" the people's obligation to attend Mass.  If not, why on earth would they celebrate the Christmas Mass the evening before?  There is, after all, a Christmas vigil Mass in the Missal that would be the appropriate Mass for what you are thinking.  

I would suggest that you're just making this up.

I have heard that this concept of the Mass after sundown the day before a day of Obligation counting for obligatory attendance is based on the Jєωιѕн notion that the Sabbath begins at sundown the day before.

When I was a child, the pastor at our parish resisted instituting Saturday night Mass that would fulfill the Sunday obligation.  He finally did so when the bishop ordered him to do so.  (He went along with each mandated change out of obedience, but he didn't like them.)  

He researched the reasoning and saw that what Neil wrote was specifically identified as the reason, so he scheduled Mass at 7:30 pm because when he started the Saturday evening Mass it was winter time and sunset was earlier.  Other parishes scheduled Saturday "evening" Mass as early as 4:00 pm to as late as 6:00 pm.  Our parish was the only Mass actually scheduled after sundown.

A couple of weeks before the change to "Daylight Saving Time", Father announced that the "summer schedule" for Saturday evening Mass would change to 9:00 pm (or it may have been 9:30 pm, I don't clearly remember).  His reasoning was that sunset was much later.  A few people complained to the archbishop (in Seattle).  The archbishop ordered the pastor to keep the Mass at 7:30, telling him that he had already put up with his "nonsense" and indulged his late Mass since it clearly did serve "a need", but changing the time for summer was not acceptable.

If it's not at midnight it doesn't really count as the sunday obligation.

Actually Sunday starts with the Vespers on Saturday.

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Neil Obstat

I thought it was strange when they started having midnight mass at 10:00 pm, 2 hours early.  So I asked about it and was informed that it was too inconvenient for parishioners to get a good night's sleep on such a busy day as Christmas when Mass doesn't start until midnight.

When the indult parish here first started celebrating the traditional Mass at 10:00 pm a few years ago, friends of mine [asked] the pastor.  They reported that the FSSP priest told them that the Missal does not say that it is "midnight Mass", rather, it calls it "The first Mass at Night", so as long as Mass is celebrated after sundown, it's perfectly ok and in accord with tradition.  Plus, the laity really liked the earlier Mass time.  

In years past, "The first Mass at Night" has been scheduled as early as 8:00 pm.  The parish has also, on special occasions, celebrated an anticipatory Sunday traditional Mass.  The only time I specifically remember hearing about was a Saturday evening traditional Mass the day before the running of the Indianapolis 500 so that parishioners could go to the "TLM" and the Race!

I have heard that this concept of the Mass after sundown the day before a day of Obligation counting for obligatory attendance is based on the Jєωιѕн notion that the Sabbath begins at sundown the day before. So it's an accommodation of Judaism, a.k.a. the Leaven of the Pharisees, of which Our Lord cautioned us to "Beware."

They even dare to call it "a vigil Mass," which has always been the Mass of the day before, and has not counted for the Sunday or Holy Day that follows it.  A typical example is the Vigil Mass of Holy Saturday (which had not satisfied one's obligation to hear Mass on Easter), since the day is the vigil of Easter.  

It's all an attack on Tradition along with everything else they do, Novus Ordo and consequently Indult groups who are forbidden to criticize the new rules post Vat.II, or anything regarding Vat.II.

They moved Ascension Thursday to the following Sunday, and they made it okay to miss Mass on Christmas and New Year's Day (Circuмcision turned Mother of God) if they fall on Saturday or Monday. ETC...........

It is not an accommodation to Judaism it is from the beginning of Christianity.

Quote from: tdrev123 (Dec 19, 2016, 10:04 pm)

If it's not at midnight it doesn't really count as the sunday obligation.

Which is plainly true to anyone deliberately following traditional Catholic teaching (although more precisely, I'd write "delayed until at least midnight"

• , instead of "at midnight[/b]").
  
  Nearly 41 hours later, I began to read this topic, and reïnforced 'tdrev123's statement:
  
  
  Quote from: AlligatorDicax (Dec 21, 2016, 2:49 pm)

  There's no credible room for honest dispute [....]
  

  
  Wow!  Did the Holy Ghost give me a brief glimpse of future replies, or what!?
  
  Most importantly, I cited Canon 32, and quoted very briefly from it:
  
  
  Quote from: AlligatorDicax (Dec 21, 2016, 2:49 pm)

  [...] according to on-line translations of Canon 32 in the 1917 Code of Canon Law

  • , that for purposes of obligations, decrees, vows, &c., the ecclesiastical ["]day consists of 24 consecutive hours, to be counted from midnight to midnight" local time (as determined by whatever practical methods are available).  So [the ecclesiastical "day" begins with] neither local sunset, nor local sunrise.
    

  If you're limited to mediæval technology, get out your quadrant or sextant, then set your water-clock.
  
  But I see that a dispute was indeed posted 11 hours later:
  
  
  Quote from: poche (Dec 22, 2016, 1:59 am)

  Actually Sunday starts with the Vespers on Saturday.
  

  
  "Actually"!?  How so?  But lest readers fail to grasp a key consequence:
  
  
  Quote from: poche (Dec 22, 2016, 2:04 am)

  The mass after first Vespers fulfills the obligation.
  

  
  Note bene: No sources whatsoever were cited.
  
  Now, after years of membership in CathInfo, I know well that 'poche' has earned, um, a very special level of respect here.  So when he wants to counter an assertion for which a source and quote was provided nearly 1/2 day earlier, he has no need whatsoever to cite and quote a source that supports his own contrary claim.  It would be mean-spirited to insist that he provide evidence, because doing so would cut into the time he needs to sustain his rate of 6.45 postings per day (data limited to CathInfo).  All 'poche' needs to do here is just state his claim, and it simply must be so!  He's just that special!
  
  -------
  Note #: I doubt that 'tdrev123' would disagree with my rewording, but if I'm wrong about that point, I suppose it'll be brought to my attention.

This story of St Notburga should illustrate how Saturday afternoon was considered the beginning of Sunday;


This little kitchen maid is very famous in her own country, high in the Alps mountains. She was the daughter of a peasant and went to work for a Count when she was eighteen. All the food she could save after each meal she gave to the many poor people who came to the side door of the castle. She even gave them much of what she was supposed to have for her own meals. The Countess was a mean woman, however, and she gave orders that Notburga was to give the left over food to the pigs, as had been done before the holy maid came.

For a while, the Saint obeyed, although she still gave the poor part of her own food. Then, she felt so sorry for those hungry people that she began again to give them food from the table. The Countess caught her and fired her at once. Next Notburga went to work for a farmer, and here, too, she was not afraid to do what she thought was right.

One Saturday afternoon, she stopped work when the Church bells rang, because Saturday evening was considered part of Sunday and no more work was done. Her employer, however, told her to keep working. Notburga answered that no good Christian kept working unless bad weather seemed about to spoil the crops. “The weather might change,” said the farmer. “We shall see about that,” answered the Saint. Then she threw her sickle up in the air, and there it stayed in the sky, looking like the harvest moon, the sign of good weather to come!

Meantime, the selfish Countless died, and the Count was having so many troubles that people said it was all a punishment for the Countless’ meanness to the poor and to St. Notburga. So when the Count married again, he made our Saint the housekeeper of the castle, and there she spent the rest of her holy life. Just before she died, she begged the Count not to forget to take care of the poor people she loved so much.

Whoever is charitable, will receive charity. Let us be charitable then, to those who are in need, with a little offering, or a helping hand.

http://thesaintsstories.blogspot.com/2008/07/st-notburga.html