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Offline Matthew

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What the Novus Ordo does to you
« on: October 05, 2010, 09:58:23 AM »
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  • An old friend of mine -- a traditional Catholic, mind you -- got married exactly 2 years ago. I am morally certain that his wife is/was Novus Ordo. He now has a 22 month old son and a 6 month old daughter. Both children were baptized at least 3 months after their births.

    Prayers requested for him and his family, and for myself that I don't look down on my old buddy too much, who seems to be totally infected with Novus Ordo influence. It is sad, and highlights just how dangerous the  touchy-feely, sentimental Novus Ordo religion can be.

    What is interesting is that this friend of mine was practically *notorious* for his piety! He was the most pious man I knew. How sad.

    As Bishop Williamson would say, "Kyrie Eleison!"

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #1 on: October 05, 2010, 10:03:24 AM »
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  • I had to use the word "interesting" in the context of this sad situation, but what is "interesting" here is that you have a man who is inclined to piety -- and normally I'd say that as long as you have enough personal piety, you can survive in the Novus Ordo.

    But apparently solid Catholic doctrine and liturgy is more important than even I thought possible.

    In my previous experience, I knew a lady who was very pious and seemed to be surviving in the Novus Ordo quite well -- morally and otherwise. She was very traditional, and prayed a lot. I don't know how she turned out though; we've been out of touch for at least 6 years.

    Emotions can help you pray; but they can also turn on you later. Emotions are best kept within the bounds of reason and doctrine.

    Matthew
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #2 on: October 05, 2010, 10:45:26 AM »
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  • My belief is as the Church teaches, if you die in Sanctifying grace you will be saved.  Novus/O or  Protestant, which the two have currently merged.  

    Simple and straight forward!  


    Offline Alexandria

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #3 on: October 05, 2010, 11:38:14 AM »
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  • What the novus ordo does for you?

    Easy answer.  Walk into any novus church and look at everyone.  Especially the over 55 crowd.

    That is what the novus church does to you.

    Quote
    In my previous experience, I knew a lady who was very pious and seemed to be surviving in the Novus Ordo quite well -- morally and otherwise. She was very traditional, and prayed a lot. I don't know how she turned out though; we've been out of touch for at least 6 years.


    I bet if you had a conversation with her you would find out that she is not any longer Catholic despite her appearances.  Week after week, year after year, of the novus ordo mess erodes your faith imperceptibly.  They do not even know that they no longer think Catholic; rather, they think Vatican II.  I know many elderly women who will swear to me that they still have the same faith they were taught as a child.  They don't, and they don't even realize it.

    Offline Belloc

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #4 on: October 05, 2010, 11:48:42 AM »
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  • Breeds indifferentism, syncretism and universal salvation....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #5 on: October 05, 2010, 11:54:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria


    I bet if you had a conversation with her you would find out that she is not any longer Catholic despite her appearances.  Week after week, year after year, of the novus ordo mess erodes your faith imperceptibly.  They do not even know that they no longer think Catholic; rather, they think Vatican II.  I know many elderly women who will swear to me that they still have the same faith they were taught as a child.  They don't, and they don't even realize it.



    Yes, just asking a few questions usually reveals that Novus Ordites are CINO.

    Offline OHCA

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 02:16:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic


    Yes, just asking a few questions usually reveals that Novus Ordites are CINO.


    Be careful with your use of "CINO"--Classiccom may have it copyrighted! :smoke-pot:

    Sorry--I couldn't resist :cheers:

    In all seriousness, I can give a rough idea of what the N.O. does to a person.  I mainly attend Motu now, but an N.O. parish is my only practical option for Catholicism.  That being said, I am VERY harsh on the N.O. and clearly see many of its ills (though I have learned even more here).

    The N.O. relaxes away from the discipline necessary to live in the dignity properly becoming of a CATHOLIC (i.e., making a complete JOKE of fasting and abstinence laws); leads to neglect of prayer and devotion (First Friday, Stations of the Cross, Rosary, grace for meals, good strong traditional prayers all but forgotten and not learned by those born post-Conciliar--I am just now learning many of these myself, including Hail Holy Queen, St. Michael, etc.)

    Now that I am more fully embracing tradition and imposing traditional practices and observances upon myself, I can truly see a personal impact in my life.  Living as a full CATHOLIC amid the N.O. is my cross to bear, and the burden has been undeservedly  lessened somewhat by my now being in a conservative N.O. with the TLM and where tradition is observed and encouraged to a great extent. I say undeserved because I previously cussed, cursed, blasphemed, and fell from grace over the N.O. and the void of tradition, and because it was "too hard" for me to live as the CATHOLIC I desired to be with the lack of support (no others doing so, no authority saying I had to, etc).

    It has indeed been my experience that, as stated, the N.O. breeds indifferentism.  I have otherwise found what has been said thus far to be true.  In myself, there was a craving for this greater fullness.  I had an opportunity to learn some tradition and know that's where the Church had been (and I believe will return).  I can only suspect that the young folks (40 and all the way down) who have left and are leaving for protestantism have a similar craving without the grounding in the fullness of the Church that I had.  Thus, the N.O. is failing many souls.  But I have not seen any logical explanation, nor any miraulous revelation, that the Apostolic chain is anywhere but there.

    Flood back into the N.O., raise hell, make mammoth waves, and DEMAND the fullness of what you bought into as converts to Catholicism and your birthright as cradle Catholics!  If doctrine is wrong, make them squirm like a worm until they are squished or have wiggled back into place!  Yes, God COULD give us a Pope from elsewhere, but that's not what He has promised in Scripture and Tradition!

    Offline Alexandria

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 02:27:09 PM »
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  • Quote
    Flood back into the N.O., raise hell, make mammoth waves, and DEMAND the fullness of what you bought into as converts to Catholicism and your birthright as cradle Catholics!  If doctrine is wrong, make them squirm like a worm until they are squished or have wiggled back into place!  Yes, God COULD give us a Pope from elsewhere, but that's not what He has promised in Scripture and Tradition!



    Are you saying that we didn't fight?  That we all just laid down and played dead as they rammed the changes down our throats?


    Offline Matthew

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 03:04:22 PM »
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  • To return to the original post, though, we're talking about someone who had the complete traditional Catholic Faith and LATER starting being more lax toward the N.O. for various reasons, including marriage (some guys can't stay single forever; it's too hard for them)

    Matthew
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    Offline AlbinoLuciani

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 04:00:55 PM »
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  • Quote
    Especially the over 55 crowd.


    Jeans, white tennis shoes, and pastel windbreakers.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 04:43:07 PM »
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  • Matthew,

    What specific effects have you noticed so far?


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 09:49:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    ...talking about someone who had the complete traditional Catholic Faith and LATER starting being more lax toward the N.O. for various ....



    The Trans Alpine Redemptorists have been saying on their website that the ecumenical event in Westminster Abbey was fine.

    Offline Matthew

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #12 on: October 05, 2010, 09:52:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Matthew,

    What specific effects have you noticed so far?


    Re-read the OP (original post) and you'll find 2 things "wrong with this picture".

    It's not that I don't see moral and other problems in people all around me, it just shocks me when it happens to a solid Traditional Catholic. But this particular Trad. Catholic cozied up a bit too close to the Novus Ordo, which I believe is part of the problem.

    Matthew
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    Offline Roman Catholic

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #13 on: October 05, 2010, 09:56:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA


    Flood back into the N.O., raise hell, make mammoth waves, and DEMAND the fullness of what you bought into as converts to Catholicism and your birthright as cradle Catholics!  If doctrine is wrong, make them squirm like a worm until they are squished or have wiggled back into place!  Yes, God COULD give us a Pope from elsewhere, but that's not what He has promised in Scripture and Tradition!



    Flood back to the vomit?

    If Doctrine is wrong - they are not Catholic.

    Return to invalid rites that are not salvivic?

    Perhaps there is food for thought here:

    And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    Matthew 10:14

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    What the Novus Ordo does to you
    « Reply #14 on: October 05, 2010, 10:09:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA


    The N.O. relaxes away from the discipline necessary to live in the dignity properly becoming of a CATHOLIC (i.e., making a complete JOKE of fasting and abstinence laws); leads to neglect of prayer and devotion (First Friday, Stations of the Cross, Rosary, grace for meals, good strong traditional prayers all but forgotten and not learned by those born post-Conciliar--I am just now learning many of these myself, including Hail Holy Queen, St. Michael, etc.)

    It has indeed been my experience that, as stated, the N.O. breeds indifferentism.  I have otherwise found what has been said thus far to be true.



    Yes, but as well as the lack of fundamental Catholic practices which are helps to salvation; the beliefs of most Novus Ordites are not Catholic.

    If you were to sit down with a basic catechism and ask most Novus Ordites the questions, how many of them would have the basics wrong, and vehemently disagree with doctrines?

    Try raising Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, or communicatio in sacris with Novus Ordites. Many don't believe in transubstantiation either.

     

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