We are told Jesus gave the Keys of His Church to Peter, the Rock. Having lived within Catholicism for 20 years before Vatican II, I know that Church no longer exists. The Peters since then have presided over the demise of Christ's Church. I found fault in many of their beliefs, actions and statements. The latest calling himself Pope Francis, is taking what is left of Catholicism into the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

The faith I was born into said I must, under pain of mortal sin and eternal hell, accept the reigning pope as pope and follow him. I am supposed to respect and obey the bishops and cardinals the pope elivates into office. How on earth can one accept popes and a hierarchy that differ in their opinions and acts from heresy to soft modernism?

In this time I live in, to follow the pope, his cardinals and bishops would be to deny the Catholicism I adhere to. I simply will not do that. But according to Church teaching that means I am in schism or suchlike. How trapped I and other friends feel about that.

How in God's name could He have left us Catholics in such a contradiction? It is enough to PROVE Catholicism cannot be the true Church of God if it contradicts itself.

Nowhere in the Gospels does it tell us how to live with such a Church hierarchy. You are damned if you do accept what they say, they have the keys yes, they are the rock Christ said, so seemingly dammed if you dont.

'Rome will become the seat of the antichrist' Our Lady said at La Salette. 'Impossible' Catholics said, how could it? What she didn't tell us is what we 'Romans' were to do when that happened.

The Gospel prepared us for the end times. Our Lord said he would hardly find Faith on earth at the end of the world. Scripture tells us that the Church would be reduced to a remnant, and so obscure that the Antichrist would not be able to discern where it is for years. St. Bernard believed that the Antichrist would likely be a false pope whom the world of Catholics would follow into apostasy.

You need to take the lessons of Church history. Run from those infected with heresy, as did St. Athanasius and his remnant followers....notwithstanding that the Arians still had valid Sacraments. Run! It's a moral obligation.

Yes bumphrey and saintbosco, I am aware of all these warnings. But not one answers my question.
If Peter has the keys and God promised hell shall not prevail against His church, and Peter looks to us like an antichrist, is this not a contradiction?

Where in Scripture does it warn us against Peter, and tell us what to do? Peter is not supposed to be the antichrist is he? Vatican one did say


Of course we can ignore it all, keep the faith of Trent, but that does not answer the $64,000 question. Where in Scripture does it warn us against peters going nuts and tell us where the keys are in the meantime.

Many of us are very confused and disturbed with this state of affairs in the Church today. I believe God never leaves us ignorant. But I cannot find a Catholic answer to the current scenario.

Yes bumphrey and saintbosco, I am aware of all these warnings. But not one answers my question.
If Peter has the keys and God promised hell shall not prevail against His church, and Peter looks to us like an antichrist, is this not a contradiction?

Where in Scripture does it warn us against Peter, and tell us what to do? Peter is not supposed to be the antichrist is he? Vatican one did say

. For, the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new doctrine, but that by His help they might guard sacredly the revelation transmitted through the apostles and the deposit of faith, and might forcefully set it out…’ --- Vatican I (1869-1870) (Denz. 1836.)

Of course we can ignore it all, keep the faith of Trent, but that does not answer the $64,000 question. Where in Scripture does it warn us against peters going nuts and tell us where the keys are in the meantime.

Many of us are very confused and disturbed with this state of affairs in the Church today. I believe God never leaves us ignorant. But I cannot find a Catholic answer to the current scenario.

Cassini,

If Scripture is not specific enough for you, the answer is very simple; follow what the Church has always taught on this matter after the close of Scripture. The quotes listed at the link below are very clear. Notice one of the quotes is from the Vatican I Church Fathers, which you quoted.

http://francisquotes.com/church-teaching.html

Two very good replies Pax Vobis and saintbosco. I never considered the 'Church' and the 'pope' could be separated. But the facts of today show that is the case. I have heard enough to take up a position.

The Irish more than anyone are well schooled in the institution (Rome) serving the interests of anti-christ. Yes, google in Pope Alexander VIII giving his blessing to the Protestant army of William of Orange against that of the Catholic King James II. The Protestant victory kept Catholic Ireland under Protestant rule for centuarys. If found at a trident mass one could be jailed or executed.

There is evidence that Pope John XXIII was a Mason and thus automatically excommunicated.
The council he presided over was pastoral and therefore non binding anyway.
I hear that Bergolio is the first pope not ordained in the ancient order.
I have to agree that his utterances are heretical and so he too must have excommunicated himself.
Now I accept I am not allowed to judge him a heretic or excommunicated, that is up to the 'hierarchy.'
But today's Modernist hierarchy elected him so will never declare him a heretic and no longer 'pope.'
Exactly where the true key holder resides today must remain a mystery for us now.
It is significant that there were/are those who resisted this new order, and I am now satisfied there lies the Mystical Body of Christ. The gates of hell have not prevailed.
It seems the true church is present wherever a 1570-mass is being said by a priest validly ordained in the ancient rite by a bishop,  who at that time of the priest's ordination, was himself in that chain of apostolic-succession--bishops who had NO excommunicated bishops.

For now we must do as the same Lady of La Salette told us at Fatima. She said she will bring peace eventually. We may not see it, but hopefully of grandchildren will.
 

 
Notice when you look at Scripture and Church teaching on this subject that they do not teach recognize and resist - they instead teach the Pope is anathematized and to be completely avoided.
 
If you look in any pre-Vatican II Catholic book, there is no such thing as a pastoral General Council. This term was created at Vatican II and is complete nonsense. The fact remains that Vatican II taught previously condemned doctrines, and once Paul VI put his stamp of approval on the Council, it was obvious to all that this was an illegitimate Council and Pope.
 
Recognizing Bergoglio is a heretic is not making an official declaration, it simply pointing out an observable fact. If you see a man rob a bank in broad daylight, you can certainly refer to him as a thief and you are not making any kind of declaration by doing so. The law will catch up with him later and make the official declaration, but in the meantime you can certainly refer to him as a thief and you wouldn't leave your valuables unattended with him just because the law hasn't sentenced him.
 
There does not have to be someone "holding the keys" at all times in the Church. Every time a new pope is elected there is a period of time where there is no pope, which can be days, months, or years. For example, here are some of the more lengthy interregnums:
 
    1268: 3 years without a Pope
    1292: 2 years without a Pope
    1314: 2 years without a Pope
    1415: 2 years without a Pope
    1799: 6 months without a Pope
 
There was no one "holding the keys" during these periods, but the Church continued on as normal. Same situation today.
 

Terrific reasoning Saintbosco, makes perfect sense. I hope many are reading your posts.

God bless.

Yes, excellent material posted there. One needs nothing else.

Anyone that does not recognize the situation, does not, because they put obstacles (sins) that block  God's grace, His voice speaking to us. We did not learn the truth from studying, we learned the truth by keeping ourselves clean by constant confession. Anyone that does not see that the Vatican II popes are not even Catholics, are blinded by their love of some sin (respect of man, sins of the flesh, abortion, adultery, pornography, babes in bikinis......)

2.  Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church/Truth.  He did not promise that hell would not prevail against the papacy.

Thank you for #2, it is just the concise wording I've been searching for.

All popes have a free-will, and they can freely will to resign or go into heresy. A pope choosing to leave the Church by heresy does not mean hell prevailed against the papacy. The papacy is an institution that outlasts any death, insanity, resignation or choosing of heresy. A vacancy in all cases is a result, and we have to hope for the next election as soon as possible.

The Gospel prepared us for the end times. Our Lord said he would hardly find Faith on earth at the end of the world. Scripture tells us that the Church would be reduced to a remnant, and so obscure that the Antichrist would not be able to discern where it is for years. St. Bernard believed that the Antichrist would likely be a false pope whom the world of Catholics would follow into apostasy.

You need to take the lessons of Church history. Run from those infected with heresy, as did St. Athanasius and his remnant followers....notwithstanding that the Arians still had valid Sacraments. Run! It's a moral obligation.

this is interesting. St Bernard spoke of the AntiChrist being a false pope. Well, I think we all agree the pope we have is false
Does this mean it is the end of the world?
I know someone who "studies" end times stuff.. believes in the Rapture, which I tried to tell him is Unbiblical but he doesn't listen to me. I don't know this person well, so--may never see him again or I would tell him about the Catholic Church, which.. again, who knows where that is? Even the devil can't find it? That's kind of LOL worthy