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Author Topic: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor  (Read 1604 times)

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Offline St Giles

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What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
« on: August 03, 2023, 02:51:20 PM »
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  • Pius XI strongly hinted to the cardinals that he expected Pacelli to be his successor, saying "He is in your midst." He had previously been quoted as saying: "When today the Pope dies, you'll get another one tomorrow, because the Church continues. It would be a much bigger tragedy, if Cardinal Pacelli dies, because there is only one. I pray every day, God may send another one into one of our seminaries, but as of today, there is only one in this world."

    From wikipedia
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #1 on: August 03, 2023, 05:15:45 PM »
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  • Pope Pius XI made a lot of mistakes, and Pius XII's papacy was an unmitigated disaster.  Both were diplomats and were always looking for compromises.  What we needed were theologians who would refuse to compromise the faith in the interests of making "peace". 


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #2 on: August 03, 2023, 11:46:53 PM »
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  • Very interesting quote. So it sounds like Pius XI was saying there was only one person alive who could replace him as pope, and that was Pacelli.

    Then, when Pope Pius XII died, I guess we were all out of popes. :( Indeed we were.

    What I don't understand ... and maybe this is because I don't understand how the government of the Church works, but ... if there was no one in the hierarchy that either Pius XI or Pius XII could trust, why didn't they just throw all those bums out of there and get new people? A pope has supreme power, and can fire bishops, cardinals, and anyone else he wants. And if a bishop or cardinal is someone that the pope says is not worthy or trustworthy enough to be pope, how is he trustworthy enough to be a monsignor or a cardinal or anything else?

    Why not just fire the whole curia and start over? It seems drastic, but that's a lot less drastic than saying, "There's only one person left in the world who can be a good pope; you better hope he doesn't die."

    It makes me think of the scene in The Untouchables where the whole Chicago police force was corrupt, and Sean Connery said to Kevin Costner when they were trying to recruit a trustworthy officer, "If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off the tree." And they went to the police academy and signed out the cadet with the most accurate shooting record, who fortunately turned out to be Andy Garcia, and he was the only honest cop they could get to take down Al Capone. Why didn't the last Popes Pius do that too? Just recruit priests straight out of the seminary who had a simple faith and zeal, and throw out the entire curia who were all corrupted, masonic, suspected of modernism, and who knows what else? It would bring some growing pains of its own, I'm sure, but it seems like a vastly better option than sitting around moaning about how there's nobody that can be pope anymore ... WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE!!!!

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #3 on: August 04, 2023, 12:43:55 AM »
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  • Pope Pius XI made a lot of mistakes, and Pius XII's papacy was an unmitigated disaster.  Both were diplomats and were always looking for compromises.  What we needed were theologians who would refuse to compromise the faith in the interests of making "peace".
    ^^^ this

    Though Rampolla was blocked from the papacy, Della Chiesa (Benedict XV), Pacelli (Pius XII), Roncalli (John XXIII), Montini (Paul VI), and Pietro Gasparri (Cardinal Secretary of State 1914-1930) were proteges of Rampolla. The banking families of Pacelli and Montini were also connected to the Rothschilds.  Instead of the usual school and seminary training, from childhood both Pacelli and Montini were tutored under the personal direction of Rampolla. They were so tutored until their last two years before ordination.

    For details, see:

    The Undermining of the Catholic Church
    by Mary Ball Martinez (requiescat in pace), who was for decades a Vatican journalist and insider, ASIN: B0006EZHKS, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006EZHKS/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0006EZHKS&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20

    Offline Always

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #4 on: August 04, 2023, 02:38:39 AM »
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  •  Pius XII's papacy was an unmitigated disaster. 

    I'm wondering if he ever endorsed the 6 million gas chamber fairy tale or the creation of the State of Israel.  Robert Faurisson in the Preface to his book Pope Pius XII's Revisionism states: "He [Pius XII] resisted the pressure of certain Jєωιѕн organizations.  He refused to endorse either the nascent religion of the 'h0Ɩ0cαųst' (an imposter) or the creation of the State of Israel (another imposter, directly linked to the first).  He was to pay a high price for his daring, if but posthumously."


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #5 on: August 04, 2023, 05:10:08 AM »
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  • Very interesting quote. So it sounds like Pius XI was saying there was only one person alive who could replace him as pope, and that was Pacelli.

    Then, when Pope Pius XII died, I guess we were all out of popes. :( Indeed we were.

    What I don't understand ... and maybe this is because I don't understand how the government of the Church works, but ... if there was no one in the hierarchy that either Pius XI or Pius XII could trust, why didn't they just throw all those bums out of there and get new people? A pope has supreme power, and can fire bishops, cardinals, and anyone else he wants. And if a bishop or cardinal is someone that the pope says is not worthy or trustworthy enough to be pope, how is he trustworthy enough to be a monsignor or a cardinal or anything else?

    Why not just fire the whole curia and start over? It seems drastic, but that's a lot less drastic than saying, "There's only one person left in the world who can be a good pope; you better hope he doesn't die."

    It makes me think of the scene in The Untouchables where the whole Chicago police force was corrupt, and Sean Connery said to Kevin Costner when they were trying to recruit a trustworthy officer, "If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off the tree." And they went to the police academy and signed out the cadet with the most accurate shooting record, who fortunately turned out to be Andy Garcia, and he was the only honest cop they could get to take down Al Capone. Why didn't the last Popes Pius do that too? Just recruit priests straight out of the seminary who had a simple faith and zeal, and throw out the entire curia who were all corrupted, masonic, suspected of modernism, and who knows what else? It would bring some growing pains of its own, I'm sure, but it seems like a vastly better option than sitting around moaning about how there's nobody that can be pope anymore ... WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE!!!!
    Since infiltration by its very nature gets easier the more people you already have inside it's reasonable to conclude there were even more infiltrators and liberals coming out of the seminary than in the old curia.

    Modernism was steadily introduced from the bottom up.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #6 on: August 04, 2023, 06:21:48 AM »
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  • Why not just fire the whole curia and start over? It seems drastic, but that's a lot less drastic than saying, "There's only one person left in the world who can be a good pope; you better hope he doesn't die."

    Not only that, but Pius XII could have transformed the Church and prevented Vatican II simply by making good appointments.  He was Pope for nearly 20 years, and appointed thousands of bishops and most of the Cardinals who voted in the 1958 conclave.  Don't tell me he couldn't find some good conservative priests in each diocese that went vacant during his reign or found good conservative bishops to appoint as cardinals.  Every diocese had some conservative / Traditionally-minded priests.  He just needed to take the trouble to find them ... his major job as Pope.

    Among his accomplishments:

    1) Appointed the majority of bishops who would bring us Vatican II.
    2) Appointed the majority of cardinals who eventually (purportedly) elected Roncalli.
    3) Set Bugnini up to begin his liturgical experimentations (even Roncalli kicked Bugnini out), permitting travesties like the "Mass of the Future" and allowed Bugnini et al. to start tampering with the Liturgy through the "revised" Holy Week Rites
    4) Permitted some of the first Ecuмenical conferences
    5) Opened the door to "evolution" and the other travesties of modern "science" (Pius XII was enamored of science)
    6) Opened the floodgates to NFP as Catholic birth control (even if you think NFP is permissible under certain circuмstances, Pius XII's vague meanderings during his infamous Allocution permitted extreme abuse)
    7) Protected heresiarchs like Cardinal Cushing ("No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense.")
    8) Allowed Modernists to take over the seminaries
    9) Did nothing to punish and uproot the Modernists (and Communist infiltrators) throughout the Church
    10) Failed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #7 on: August 04, 2023, 06:30:22 AM »
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  • Very interesting quote. So it sounds like Pius XI was saying there was only one person alive who could replace him as pope, and that was Pacelli.

    Then, when Pope Pius XII died, I guess we were all out of popes. :( Indeed we were.

    What I don't understand ... and maybe this is because I don't understand how the government of the Church works, but ... if there was no one in the hierarchy that either Pius XI or Pius XII could trust, why didn't they just throw all those bums out of there and get new people? A pope has supreme power, and can fire bishops, cardinals, and anyone else he wants. And if a bishop or cardinal is someone that the pope says is not worthy or trustworthy enough to be pope, how is he trustworthy enough to be a monsignor or a cardinal or anything else?

    Why not just fire the whole curia and start over? It seems drastic, but that's a lot less drastic than saying, "There's only one person left in the world who can be a good pope; you better hope he doesn't die."

    It makes me think of the scene in The Untouchables where the whole Chicago police force was corrupt, and Sean Connery said to Kevin Costner when they were trying to recruit a trustworthy officer, "If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off the tree." And they went to the police academy and signed out the cadet with the most accurate shooting record, who fortunately turned out to be Andy Garcia, and he was the only honest cop they could get to take down Al Capone. Why didn't the last Popes Pius do that too? Just recruit priests straight out of the seminary who had a simple faith and zeal, and throw out the entire curia who were all corrupted, masonic, suspected of modernism, and who knows what else? It would bring some growing pains of its own, I'm sure, but it seems like a vastly better option than sitting around moaning about how there's nobody that can be pope anymore ... WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE!!!!
    Unfortunately, even that might have proven difficult.  I think he would have had to recruit from already ordained priests in the Catholic world at large.  The seminaries were probably already infested.

    I do find the quote fascinating though, if true.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #8 on: August 04, 2023, 06:35:02 AM »
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  • Pius XII appointed 56 of the 70 Cardinals who would vote in 1958 ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinals_created_by_Pius_XII

    ... including Roncalli, who should never have sniffed even a Bishop's hat given that he was suspect of Modernism.

    I can't find a list of bishops appointed during his reign but those certainly numbered in the 100s given his nearly-20-year reign.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #9 on: August 04, 2023, 06:44:50 AM »
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  • Why didn't the last Popes Pius do that too? Just recruit priests straight out of the seminary who had a simple faith and zeal, and throw out the entire curia who were all corrupted, masonic, suspected of modernism, and who knows what else? It would bring some growing pains of its own, I'm sure, but it seems like a vastly better option than sitting around moaning about how there's nobody that can be pope anymore ... WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE!!!!

    Indeed.  I've thought before what would need to be done by a legitimate Traditional pope who would take over now, or what I would do if elected.  I would immediately depose every single Roman Rite Conciliar bishop (and possibly re-appoint a small handful, like Schneider, etc. ... after they were duly corrected regarding some of their errors) and replace them with a Traditional priest.  Yes, most would be unqualified to be bishops, except that they would have the Catholic faith.  Some conditional ordinations would be necessary.  Each of these bishops then would be required to immediately suspend every Conciliar priest, and then evaluate each one on a case-by-case basis to determine whether they could be rehabilitated (retrained and conditionally ordained).  Novus Ordo Mass would be instantly banned.  And of course, a Papal Bull to condemn all the errors of the Modernists would be necessary, and a declaration that Roncalli et al. were never Popes and that all their acts are null and void.  I'd deal with the Eastern Rites later, since those need some work also.

    Of course, the very first thing I would do after deposing all the Conciliar bishops and appointing Traditional ones would be to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and order every bishop to do so as well, under pain of deposition.  If you don't participate, you're ipso facto deposed, thereby complying with Our Lady's request to the letter, having all the bishops consecrate Russia.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #10 on: August 04, 2023, 07:01:58 AM »
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  • https://inveritateblog.com/2018/10/29/sixty-years-since-the-death-of-pius-xii/

    After starting of praising the good things about the Church prior to Vatican II, Bishop Sanborn has a good section about the weaknesses of Pius XII:
    Quote
    The bad in the reign of Pope Pius XII. In 1930, when Pope Pius XI was searching for a new secretary of state to replace Cardinal Gasparri, a certain Cardinal Cerretti, who was being considered for the post, described the then Cardinal Pacelli (Pius XII) as “indecisive and weak-kneed.” I think that this was an accurate observation of his character, and one which became a tragic flaw for him and the whole Catholic Church.

    In other words, although Cardinal Pacelli had excellent intentions and sterling orthodoxy, it was difficult for him to turn these wonderful qualities into action.

    In reading about him, I have also noticed that he had an exaggerated respect, even awe, for scholarship and physical science. While these things certainly should be taken seriously, we need to exercise a caution concerning them in modern times, owing to the extreme anti-Catholic prejudices of many scholars and scientists. He probably acquired this excessive admiration for scholarship and science at the Sapienza University in Rome, a once glorious institution under papal Rome that had been confiscated and taken over by the atheist and masonic Italian government after 1870. In any case, the fact that he was easily impressed by scholarship and science left him prey to the Modernist “scholars” and “scientists” who were circulating in the Church.

    The last thing that the Church needed in 1939, the year of Cardinal Pacelli’s election to the papacy, was a weak and indecisive pope who was naive regarding the plots of the Modernists. During the reign of Saint Pius X (1903-1914), the Modernists merely submerged, only to appear later during the reign of Benedict XV (1914- 1922) and Pius XI (1922-1939). They used an entirely new instrument to spread their wicked heresy: the sacred liturgy. They hijacked the solidly Catholic liturgical movement started by Dom Guéranger and others in the nineteenth century. They wanted to make it a vehicle of ecuмenism, which is the direct product of Modernism. Prominent in this Modernist liturgical movement were Pius Parsch, Dom Beauduin, Gerard Ellard, Annibale Bugnini, and many minor authors of books and pamphlets promoting the same agenda.

    The Modernists also resurfaced in the area of Sacred Scripture. Cardinal Bea, who was the confessor of Pius XII, was prominent among these. There were many others. Biblical Modernism soared under the reign of Pius XII.

    Finally, there was the New Theology, which was a dogmatic revival of Modernism. Like the old Modernists, they detested Saint Thomas and with him the traditional theology and philosophy, and adapted Catholic theology to modern philosophical systems. The result was serious error and even heresy. Prominent among these neo-Modernists were Karl Rahner, Joseph Ratzinger (later Benedict XVI), Hans Urs von Balthasar, Edward Schillebeeckx, Yves Congar, Bernard Häring, Hans Küng, Henri de Lubac, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and many others. These theologians were freely circulating and writing under the reign of Pope Pius XII, and although some received official warnings from the Holy Office, they managed to survive the reign unharmed. Under Saint Pius X they would have been excommunicated and defrocked.

    What the Church needed in 1939, after three decades of Modernism on the rise, was another Saint Pius X, someone who would repress the heresy with severity.

    All these things having been said, let us now look at the bad aspects of Pius XII’s reign:

    • The appointment of abominable bishops. The principal Modernist bishops of Vatican II were appointed by Pius XII: König, Döpfner, Suenens, Lercaro, Montini (later Paul VI), Wojtyla (later John Paul II), Cushing, Alfrink, Frings. These were prime the Council. How many more Modernist bishops were appointed whose names escape us? It should also be pointed out that Pius XII raised a known Modernist to the cardinalate, Angelo Roncalli, and made him the Patriarch of Venice, thereby giving him a direct line to the papacy. He also made Montini, also a known Modernist, the archbishop of Milan, and therefore papabile.

    • Damage to the Liturgy. In 1948, Pope Pius XII established the Commission for Liturgical Reform, and appointed none other than Annibale Bugnini as its Secretary, the person directly in charge of it. He was a known liturgical Modernist at the time. Before long this freemason produced the reform of the Holy Week rites, promulgated in 1955 by Pope Pius XII. It contained many elements which would be later carried over into the New Mass, which was also authored by the same Bugnini, with the help of six Protestant ministers. Other changes to the Mass, the liturgical calendar, and the breviary were made in 1955, 1957, and 1958. These were in the direction of the ultimate liturgical reform under Paul VI.

    • The spread of Modernism into the Roman seminaries. The Roman seminaries were the spawning ground for future bishops, and these seminaries became infected, right under Pius XII’s nose, with Modernism of all types. While no Modernist himself, Pope Pius XII nevertheless was weak and negligent in regard to the repression of Modernism, and thereby contributed much to the present destruction which we are now witnessing.

    In summary, Pius XII’s reign was running on the momentum of the orthodoxy and vigor given to it by previous popes. By opening the door to Modernists in the episcopacy, the Curia, and seminaries, he gave them a free pass to destroy Catholicism in the Second Vatican Council.

    Under Saint Pius X, the Modernist rats submerged into the bilge water of the Catholic ship.

    After his death, they gradually made their way up to the many lower decks of this same ship, until finally they were scurrying all over the main deck under Pope Pius XII. He did little to stop this, but did much, through softness, weakness, and negligence, to foster it. After his death, with the accession of John XXIII, the Modernist rats were now at the rudder and the wheel. The rest is history.



    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #11 on: August 04, 2023, 09:02:41 AM »
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  • According to hardcore traditional Catholic standards, even if God blessed us with a traditional pope, such pope would be obligated to remove every single bishop who allows the sacrilegious New Mass in his diocese; and this means by default every bishop.  Is there any diocesan bishop in the world who forbids the New Mass?  

    That one prophecy makes sense: All the bishops in the world get knocked off, save a few, then we get a good guy in there.  It is sort of like God saying, "OK, let us see if these knuckleheads get it right this time."   
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    Offline Always

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #12 on: August 04, 2023, 01:11:47 PM »
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  • Pope Pius XI made a lot of mistakes, and Pius XII's papacy was an unmitigated disaster.

    Pius XII was praised by Fr. Gruner (who I think was a disaster in many ways) and the Fatima Center (to this day) as the great "Fatima Pope." in spite of his never carrying out the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the way it should have been done.  Nevertheless, it has been argued by some that God granted some good things as a result of the following:  1) On October 31 1942, Pope Pius XII performed the Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for the entire world.
    2) On July 7 1952, Pope Pius XII consecrated the Peoples of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno. Pius XII stated:
    Quote
    Just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart.”

    Thus, some argue that as a result of the above consecrations Russia is significantly better spiritually than it was in 1942 and still better than it was in 1952.

    Another point in favor of Pius XII some argue is that in spite of a lot of pressure by the Jooz he never ever bought into the h0Ɩ0h0αx and he never endorsed the creation of the modern State of Israel, aka: Israehell.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #13 on: August 04, 2023, 01:19:17 PM »
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  • Pius XII was praised by Fr. Gruner (who I think was a disaster in many ways) and the Fatima Center (to this day) as the great "Fatima Pope." in spite of his never carrying out the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the way it should have been done.

    Oh, I do think he was the Fatima Pope, but not because he carried out Our Lady's request.  It's because he failed to carry our Our Lady's Request and therefore ushered in the great chastisement that was to follow as a result of his failure.  Heaven had intended for Pius XII to perform the consecration, reveal the Secret, and prevent the events that followed.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: What Pope Pius XI said about his successor
    « Reply #14 on: August 04, 2023, 03:44:46 PM »
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  • In 1929, Sister Lucy was directed by Our Lady"It is time for the Pope to consecrate Russia".  If he does not, he will be as King Louis who was to consecrate France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. He did not, he was dethroned and beheaded.  Pope XI was commanded to Consecrate Russia.  He did not.  Our Lady was  what we know, to have said, "He did it in half measure".

    Pope XI did not consecrate to Russia, he used the word World.