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Author Topic: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?  (Read 31372 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2019, 12:15:49 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on October 22, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
There's no difference between an actual, physical, material, governing office and a spiritual office.   It is all one and the same.  The distinction was invented by the heretic des Laureirs.  No real Catholic, much less one who called himself a Traditional Catholic, would give this novelty a second thought.
That’s a strong accusation. Can you provide proof that he was a heretic?
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Offline forlorn

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2019, 12:53:13 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on October 22, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
There's no difference between an actual, physical, material, governing office and a spiritual office.   It is all one and the same.  The distinction was invented by the heretic des Laureirs.  No real Catholic, much less one who called himself a Traditional Catholic, would give this novelty a second thought.
While not quite the same distinction, Bellarmine made a distinction between the matter and form of the papacy, i.e that one can have the matter of the papacy(sitting on the throne of St. Peter and being recognised by the faithful as the pope) without having the form(actually being pope). Someone with the matter but without the form(that is, they lost the form due to heresy or some other means but they have not been deposed yet) would de facto occupy the material, governing office but not the spiritual office. At least in theory. 
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Offline forlorn

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #102 on: October 22, 2019, 12:54:28 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 21, 2019, 08:56:52 PM
Sedeprivationism is the only theory which lines up with all/most of the facts.  The election-then-deprivation-of-spiritual-office lines up with the fact that both St Pius X and Pius XII changed the election laws to allow exactly this scenario.
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Meanwhile, sedevacantism has a plethora of reasons why the V2 popes aren't popes, with no consensus on the main reason, with no explanation of the above election law changes, and mostly using indirect logic (i.e. working backwards.  Example:  Pope was elected, pope spoke heresy.  That's not possible, therefore pope wasn't elected in the first place).  R&R also does not explain the election law changes, because they (generally speaking) don't acknowledge that the V2 popes are 100% heretics.
All fair points, but it doesn't address the actual point of contention - UPA in no way aids the sedevacantist position and therefore it does not make sense that sedes would be the ones pushing it. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2019, 01:18:27 PM »
Quote
UPA in no way aids the sedevacantist position and therefore it does not make sense that sedes would be the ones pushing it. 
As I explained earlier, and with Clemens Maria's post on this thread being an example, he used the UA as a "gotcha" test against (presumably) R&R folk.  It has no bearing on the sede theory, but it's just used to attack the "other side".
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #104 on: October 22, 2019, 02:43:37 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 22, 2019, 01:18:27 PM
As I explained earlier, and with Clemens Maria's post on this thread being an example, he used the UA as a "gotcha" test against (presumably) R&R folk.  It has no bearing on the sede theory, but it's just used to attack the "other side".
You are a stupid idiot.  I don't even know if Universal Peaceful Acceptance as interpreted by the neo-SSPX is even Catholic teaching never mind believing that it is applicable to the current situation.  At no time did I ever argue for UPA (or UA, whatever).  But you are too stupid to understand that.
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