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Author Topic: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?  (Read 31355 times)

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Offline ByzCat3000

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2019, 08:02:30 PM »
Quote from: Matto on October 21, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
They are not really Bishops in the full sense because they have no authority from the Church. They are just laymen who managed to convince aging Bishops with traditional tendencies to give them orders. If I went to Bishop McKenna or even a retired Novus Ordo Bishop with a traditional Consecration and convinced him to consecrate me I would have just as much authority as Bishop Sanborn. That is none. I don't know how exactly to word it, but they have orders but no jurisdiction as they say.
I see your point, but this seems to create a kind of circular scenario.  Like any bishop who concluded the Pope wasn't Pope would necessarily lose ordinary jurisdiction sort of by design.

And to be clear, I'm a probable sedeplenist.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2019, 08:56:52 PM »

Quote
So every pope since Vatican 2 was validly elected and then was deprived thereafter? Well, it might work with sedeprivationism, but it in no way aids that position or any sede position for that matter so it's hard to see how sedes could have any motive in pushing it.
Sedeprivationism is the only theory which lines up with all/most of the facts.  The election-then-deprivation-of-spiritual-office lines up with the fact that both St Pius X and Pius XII changed the election laws to allow exactly this scenario.
.
Meanwhile, sedevacantism has a plethora of reasons why the V2 popes aren't popes, with no consensus on the main reason, with no explanation of the above election law changes, and mostly using indirect logic (i.e. working backwards.  Example:  Pope was elected, pope spoke heresy.  That's not possible, therefore pope wasn't elected in the first place).  R&R also does not explain the election law changes, because they (generally speaking) don't acknowledge that the V2 popes are 100% heretics.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2019, 08:57:49 PM »

Quote
For a Pope to lose his office, you'd need at least a small minority of Bishops to stop commemorating him.
That's true for the actual, physical, material, governing office.  Not true for his spiritual office.
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Offline Praeter

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2019, 10:12:18 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 21, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
That's true for the actual, physical, material, governing office.  Not true for his spiritual office.
There's no difference between an actual, physical, material, governing office and a spiritual office.   It is all one and the same.  The distinction was invented by the heretic des Laureirs.  No real Catholic, much less one who called himself a Traditional Catholic, would give this novelty a second thought. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2019, 10:40:50 AM »
Quote
The distinction was invented by the heretic des Laureirs. 
He might have invented the distinction between the 2 types of "offices", but the idea of a material vs spiritual jurisdiction/authority (whatever you want to call it), has been around for centuries.
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