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Author Topic: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?  (Read 31367 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2019, 05:09:58 PM »
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So if UPA is true then all those V2 popes were valid popes, utterly destroying the sedevacantist position. 
No.  A validly elected pope can lose his spiritual office (or it can be impaired) for a number of reasons.  UPA doesn't destroy sedevacantism at all.  It is only concerned with the election of a pope.  His orthodoxy is another matter altogether.
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Offline forlorn

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2019, 05:20:50 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 21, 2019, 05:09:58 PM
No.  A validly elected pope can lose his spiritual office (or it can be impaired) for a number of reasons.  UPA doesn't destroy sedevacantism at all.  It is only concerned with the election of a pope.  His orthodoxy is another matter altogether.
So every pope since Vatican 2 was validly elected and then was deprived thereafter? Well, it might work with sedeprivationism, but it in no way aids that position or any sede position for that matter so it's hard to see how sedes could have any motive in pushing it.
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Offline Nishant Xavier

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2019, 05:52:25 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 21, 2019, 05:09:58 PM
No.  A validly elected pope can lose his spiritual office (or it can be impaired) for a number of reasons.  UPA doesn't destroy sedevacantism at all.  It is only concerned with the election of a pope.  His orthodoxy is another matter altogether.
For a Pope to lose his office, you'd need at least a small minority of Bishops to stop commemorating him. That's what Cardinal Billot says in the case of Pope Alexander VI. It's why, very likely, a Pope can only lose his office after warnings from the Cardinals and Bishops. At that time, after the warnings, he is no longer universally accepted, but many Bishops don't acknowledge him. Then, perhaps he could fall from the pontificate. 
It is certain that every Pope up until Pope Benedict XVI was validly elected and remained Pope until their death/resignation by this criterion. Whether Pope Francis will remain Pope or not until the end is something only God knows, I think, as it depends on the future.
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Offline ByzCat3000

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2019, 06:05:26 PM »
Quote from: XavierSem on October 21, 2019, 05:52:25 PM
For a Pope to lose his office, you'd need at least a small minority of Bishops to stop commemorating him. 
Devil's Advocating, this has happened.  There are a couple bishops in the SSPV, at least one in the CMRI, Donald Sanborn.

Why don't they count?
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Offline Matto

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2019, 06:17:41 PM »
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 21, 2019, 06:05:26 PM
Devil's Advocating, this has happened.  There are a couple bishops in the SSPV, at least one in the CMRI, Donald Sanborn.

Why don't they count?

They are not really Bishops in the full sense because they have no authority from the Church. They are just laymen who managed to convince aging Bishops with traditional tendencies to give them orders. If I went to Bishop McKenna or even a retired Novus Ordo Bishop with a traditional Consecration and convinced him to consecrate me I would have just as much authority as Bishop Sanborn. That is none. I don't know how exactly to word it, but they have orders but no jurisdiction as they say. 
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