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Author Topic: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?  (Read 31422 times)

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Offline forlorn

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2019, 09:46:39 AM »
Quote from: Clemens Maria on October 12, 2019, 09:33:05 AM
That effectively nullifies the whole purpose of asserting universal peaceful acceptance.  The underlying premise is that if the hierarchy couldn't be assured of being attached to the true pope, they could become separated from him.  But history shows that this has in fact happened.  I can't remember which pope during the GWS (maybe Pope Martin V?) was almost universally not accepted as the true pope.  And yet he was the true pope!
A lack of acceptance doesn't make you not the pope, but universal acceptance makes it heresy to not accept the pope. Like a Catholic who mistakenly followed an anti-pope in the GWS wasn't committing heresy or schism by that fact, but if they rejected a pope who enjoys universal acceptance they would.
What exactly qualifies as universal acceptance is the big issue however.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2019, 09:50:11 AM »
Quote from: forlorn on October 12, 2019, 09:46:39 AM
A lack of acceptance doesn't make you not the pope, but universal acceptance makes it heresy to not accept the pope. Like a Catholic who mistakenly followed an anti-pope in the GWS wasn't committing heresy or schism by that fact, but if they rejected a pope who enjoys universal acceptance they would.
What exactly qualifies as universal acceptance is the big issue however.

But this doesn't adequately address the case studies put forward by Clemens.  If I knew that the true Pope was in jail and refused to accept the guy who was at the time universally accepted, that would make me a heretic for rejecting him?

I would have to say that legitimate election must be in the mix.  If I reject a man I know to have been legitimately elected with universal acceptance by the Church, then I'd be a heretic.  If I know or find out that the guy was not legitimately elected, then no amount of universal acceptance after the fact can change that.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2019, 09:55:18 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on October 12, 2019, 09:50:11 AM
But this doesn't adequately address the case studies put forward by Clemens.  If I knew that the true Pope was in jail and refused to accept the guy who was at the time universally accepted, that would make me a heretic for rejecting him?

I would have to say that legitimate election must be in the mix.  If I reject a man I know to have been legitimately elected with universal acceptance by the Church, then I'd be a heretic.  If I know or find out that the guy was not legitimately elected, then no amount of universal acceptance after the fact can change that.
Right, and remember it is Pope SAINT Eugene I.  They were materially in error but they were of good will.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2019, 09:58:03 AM »
Universal Acceptance is also a bit problematic before the last hundred years or so.  I would bet that during most of the Church's history, a good percentage of the Church had no idea who the Pope even was, and would have no actual way to confirm that the man was properly elected.  All they knew was that there was some guy sitting there in Rome claiming to be Pope, and they trusted God's providence that this was the guy.  90% of the Church would not have been the wiser had the emperor merely installed one of his cronies in the position.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2019, 10:01:01 AM »
Quote from: Clemens Maria on October 12, 2019, 09:55:18 AM
Right, and remember it is Pope SAINT Eugene I.  They were materially in error but they were of good will.

And SAINT Martin appears to have acquiesced to the election of Eugene.  Is that similar to what happened with Siri?  But did this acquiescence mean anything?  I would say that he too was materially mistaken.  Now, if he had formally resigned, that would be one thing ... but even that one might consider invalid since it was done under duress.
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