Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 23

Author Topic: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?  (Read 31579 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2019, 09:34:26 AM »
Quote from: Clemens Maria on October 12, 2019, 09:24:36 AM
And who decides that the criteria are met and is that decision also a dogmatic fact?

Well, if there's dispute whether or not the criterion has been met, then the criterion has NOT been met.

I believe that the principle cannot be Universal Acceptance alone, but must rather be:

LEGITIMATE ELECTION + Universal Acceptance.

So, in other words, if there's universal acceptance that the election being held is legitimate, then the results of that election make the man Pope.  If five minutes later, the Cardinals inside the conclave tried to depose the man and haul out another one, that man would not be pope.  Sound familiar?  One Cardinal Siri scenario immediately leaps to mind.

Now, the counter argument is that the universal acceptance of a false pope compromises the infallibility of the Ecclesia Credens, but I would answer that the infallibility of the Ecclesia Credens is not compromised by material error.
Logged

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2019, 09:35:26 AM »
Quote from: Clemens Maria on October 12, 2019, 09:34:11 AM
Could be the Pope Siri theory is true, right?

Well, I've always thought that it was plausible, but couldn't explain it by way of the universal acceptance hypothesis, but your case studies demonstrate that it is in fact possible for a non-pope to be universally accepted.
Logged

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2019, 09:38:41 AM »
I've always detected a slight hint of "convalidation" theory in the Universal Acceptance reasoning.  I think that Bishop Sanborn came out nearly explicitly with this notion when he treated of it one time.

If there's UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE of the election and the election happens in the manner pre-determined by the Pope, i.e. those usual pre-Conclave instructions laid out by the Pope, then the man is pope at the moment of his election (+acceptance of it) ... even if he's immediately deposed or jailed or whatever.  Those Cardinals could in fact engage in a conspiracy where they would hide the conclave results from the Universal Church, and the Church would not be any wiser to it.  Is that what happened with Siri?
Logged

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2019, 09:43:03 AM »
What would happen if the 1958 Conclave completely violated the terms prescribed by Pius XII and did not legitimately hold the election?  Then they trotted out the man that was produced by this uncanonical election and proposed him to the Church?  And the Church, being none the wiser to the true facts, just accepted this guy?  Can acceptance by the Church con-validate the election?  I don't feel like it should be able to.

Maybe it's time for the Church to change the secrecy rules regarding conclaves, and force the entire thing to be conducted like a reality TV show where cameras and microphones are present ... but then of course the conspirators could go so far as to produce deepfake videos.
Logged

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What is Universal Peaceful Acceptance?
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2019, 09:45:26 AM »
I mean, naturally speaking, there's nothing to stop all manner of fakery from being perpetrated on the Church.

Let's say the Masons and Communists and Jews have been infiltrating the hierarchy for centuries, to the point that 90% of them were covert agents.

They decide before the election that they would install a designated candidate regardless of election rules.

They trot this guy out as the pope, and the Church as a whole is none the wiser.

This is very likely what happened in 1958.

Of course, God could blow up the entire conspiracy anytime He chose to.  But this was God's chastisement, not to impede the conspiracy.  Recall Pope Leo XIII's vision where Our Lord granted leave for Satan to have more power over those who wish to serve him, and the subsequent prayer to St. Michael referring to the enemies of the Church replacing the Holy See with their own throne.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 23
« previous next »