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Author Topic: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?  (Read 10456 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2018, 01:58:02 PM »
This was my understanding, but only if they had valid orders in the first place. Right?
That's the way pretty much everyone understands it, but cuм ex condemns with loss of office and banishment of all bishops (and cardinals, popes, kings etc.) who ever deviated from the faith; "...it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration....."

Re: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2018, 02:15:56 PM »
That's the way pretty much everyone understands it, but cuм ex condemns with loss of office and banishment of all bishops (and cardinals, popes, kings etc.) who ever deviated from the faith; "...it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration....."
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To acquire validity for the appointment.  He's saying that the appointment of heretics is not valid even if they're validly consecrated


Offline Stubborn

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Re: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2018, 02:36:03 PM »
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To acquire validity for the appointment.  He's saying that the appointment of heretics is not valid even if they're validly consecrated
 JAM posted: "Orally, the Holy Father detailed first of all, all the powers which he was giving, including the choice of priests to consecrate and to confer on them the episcopacy without their having need of pontifical bulls, nor therefore to give their signatures engaging themselves to conform to such under oath..... In a word We grant you all the pontifical powers of the Pope himself, which are not by Divine Law incommunicable."

cuм ex says that for those who have ever deviated from the faith, "the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless; it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity...."

So per cuм ex, +Thuc, having been detected of deviating from the faith, lost his supposed appointment read: elevation of universal jurisdiction, a jurisdiction normally reserved only to the bishop of Rome.  

So I was wrong in what cuм ex said - it says nothing about invalid consecrations.

Re: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »

Quote
So per cuм ex, +Thuc, having been detected of deviating from the faith, lost his supposed appointment read: elevation of universal jurisdiction, a jurisdiction normally reserved only to the bishop of Rome.

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This makes literally no sense at all.
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cuм Ex is simply codifying into the Church's positive law what all the Fathers and Doctors taught: if you're a heretic, you can't hold office in the Church, full stop.  It doesn't matter if you're validly consecrated, it doesn't matter if your appointment is accepted, it doesn't matter even if you're elected pope and all the cardinals think you are pope.  If you're a heretic you can't have an office, full stop.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What is the source of sedevacantist bishops' jurisdiction?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2018, 02:55:59 PM »
This was my understanding, but only if they had valid orders in the first place. Right?

But of course.