Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Poll

Which of these groups is in schism from the Body of the Catholic Church?

The SSPX is in schism because they made a deal with new Rome.
3 (11.5%)
The "Resistance" is in schism because they refuse communion with the SSPX.
0 (0%)
The Sedes are in schism because they do not acknowledge the post-conciliar popes as valid.
1 (3.8%)
Sanborn's group (RCI) is in schism because it holds the Thesis.
0 (0%)
The SSPV is in schism because they do not acknowledge the Thuc-line bishops.
0 (0%)
Those outed/banned by CathInfo are in schism because they upset some forum users.
1 (3.8%)
All these groups are in schism.
3 (11.5%)
None of these groups are in schism.
12 (46.2%)
Some of these groups are in schism (please identify which ones).
3 (11.5%)
Other (please explain).
3 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?  (Read 30839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2025, 11:28:27 AM »
No reason to start a whole new thread just to avoid answering the question, simply answer the clear question with a clear answer. 

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2025, 12:48:21 PM »
For lay people - do you NOT consider sharing communion and a normal sacramental life as "adhering" to a group? I mean what exactly would fit your description of it? Would it be having to state verbally that one belonged to such a schismatic group, or internally think of themselves as a member of it, but they would be "good" if they are just using the schismatic clergy as "sacrament dispensers"?

No, receiving the Sacraments (even regularly) from a group does not constitute adherence to the group.  Even in Canon Law, if one attended Greek Orthodox rites even, one would only be considered SUSPECT of schism/heresy ... and only after 6 months of attendance.  It's well known that many sedevacantists and Resistance folks assist regularly at SSPX Masses, for instance.  They've simply made the judgment that it's licit to receive Sacraments there, based on various rationales ... even though they do not "agree with" or "adhere to" the group's positions.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2025, 12:56:30 PM »
In one sense, schism can be a "social sin" if the acts of the schismatic are shared communally. In another sense, it could only be internal and/or expressed externally by removing oneself from all other Catholics and refusing communion with them or say secretly hating the pope and refusing submission to him in spiritual matters. Do you agree with this?

As previously mentioned, receiving Sacraments from a schismatic group might render one "suspect" of schism, but it's not necessarily objectively the case ... and ESPECIALLY since the groups we're talking about here haven't even been authoritatively declared to be in schism.  You keep speaking of this as if a declared schismatic group like the Orthodox are in the same category as various groups Trads have "declared" to be in schism.  Even IF it were a declared group, it's not certain ... but then in the case of a group who has not been declared and the assessment is based merely on your own private judgement, there's not a chance that merely assisting at those Masses would constitute schism of any kind.

So your premise seem to be not only that declared (and professed) schismatic groups are in the same category as groups that profess to be Catholic and about whom the Church has not authoritatively determined otherwise.  That's apples and oranges.  Not only that, but then you're implying that this putative schism (based on your private judgment) is even somehow contagious or communicable.  So, if someone whom you do not consider to hold schismatic positions attends a chapel of a group that does in your opinion hold to schismatic opinions, even though he himself does not adhere to the schismatic posiiton, but has merely judged it licit to attend the chapel (for reasons, say, such as those I articulated) ... now that person is schismatic not for actually holding the schismatic opinion but merely for holding that it's OK to go there for Mass since the Church hasn't been declared schismatic.  Or, as some groups do, you hold a position to be heretical, so that even if I don't hold that heretical position, I'm a heretic for just disagreeing with you that it's heresy?  In other words, I don't agree with the alleged heresy, but you judge me a heretic for disagreeing with your assessment of the theological note.

These dogmatic types of opinions and positions are in fact the primary tendency to schism among the majority of Traditional Catholics, i.e THIS thinking is precisely the closest thintg to schism, where ironically it's those who declare many/most other Trads to be guilty of schism that are actually most in danger of being schismatics themselves.

Here's an example.  You hold that the CMRI are schismatic.  I have nothing to do with the CMRI and disagree with many of their positions.  But I disagree with your judgment that the CMRI are schismatic.  Therefore, you delcare that I'm a schismatic for not considering the CMRI to be schismatic, even though I actually have no connection whatsoever to their group or their attitudes or whatever you consider problematic about them.  Where does it end?  If I'm CMRI, I'm schismatic?  If I don't think the CMRI are schismatic, I'm schismatic?  If I don't think that someone who doesn't think the CMRI are schismatic is schismatic, then I am schismatic?  ad infinitum et ad absurdum

Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2025, 02:39:45 PM »
OTHER because I’m unqualified to declare schism.