What is the Novus Ordo Post-Conciliar Church?
Some traditional voices to consider:"Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." St. Athanasius“To whatever extent pope, bishops, priests or faithful adhere to this new Church, they separate themselves from the Catholic Church.” - Archbishop Lefebre “That Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been.” - Archbishop Lefebre"[Satan] will set up a counterchurch which will be the ape of the [Catholic] Church. . . . It will have all the notes and characteristics of the Church, but in reverse and emptied of its divine content." Mgr. Fulton J. Sheen"Bergoglio’s “church” is not only in turmoil: it is in full delirium. If this can happen, it is precisely because it is no longer the Catholic Church, but her scandalous counterfeit; and because in the place of the Pope on the Throne of Peter sits a heretical and usurper tyrant." - Archbishop ViganoWhat some pseudo-traditionalists say:I’ve heard both these terms bantered about for years, and have come to the conclusion that they are very dangerous labels that betray — or at least can betray — a flawed notion of what the Church is. And this removes the label from the “convenient” category to the “misunderstanding” category. As soon as you put the noun “Church” after the predicate “Conciliar” or “Novus Ordo,” the implicit conclusion is that this “Church” (or “church”) is something other than the Catholic Church. Whoever accuses the legitimate Holy Father of leading the “Conciliar Church,” has it that he heads an alien sect, not the Catholic Church. (Bishop Williamson’s contention that the Pope is at the same time head of both — a false sect and the true Church — is a piece of psychedelic theology that only emboldens the sedevacantsists to point and laugh, while giving mainstream critics of the SSPX more ammo to fling at them.) The net result is this: If you refer to the “Conciliar Church” or the “Novus Ordo” Church and you mean by that an institution headed by Pope Benedict XVI, but not the Catholic Church, then you are a schismatic. And schismatics — need I say it? — go to hell." - the "Philosopher" Taken from Saint Benedict Center website: https://catholicism.org/the-conciliar-church-does-not-exist.html“The Church is One because all its members agree in one faith, are all in one communion, and are all under one head.”[3] Is this true today? Not everyone agrees on even the most basic tenets of the faith, for example, the Real Presence. The Nicene Creed that we recite every Sunday at Mass is a concise compendium of essential beliefs of the faith. Its articles are doctrines that we must believe if we are to call ourselves Catholics. However, what are we to do if the Church herself no longer seems to embrace at least parts of these doctrines, such as certain aspects of the distinguishing marks of the Church?" - Dr. Edward SchaeferTaken from Indult site: https://onepeterfive.com/chapter-5-one-holy-catholic-apostolic/What the Church says:The Mystical Body of Christ, the Church Pope Pius XII - 1943
23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy. Men may lose charity and divine grace through sin, thus becoming incapable of supernatural merit, and yet not be deprived of all life if they hold fast to faith and Christian hope, and if, illumined from above, they are spurred on by the interior promptings of the Holy Spirit to salutary fear and are moved to prayer and penance for their sins.24. Let every one then abhor sin, which defiles the mystical members of our Redeemer; but if anyone unhappily falls and his obstinacy has not made him unworthy of communion with the faithful, let him be received with great love, and let eager charity see in him a weak member of Jesus Christ. For, as the Bishop of Hippo remarks, it is better “to be cured within the Church’s community than to be cut off from its body as incurable members. As long as a member still forms part of the body there is no reason to despair of its cure; once it has been cut off, it can be neither cured nor healed.40. For Peter in virtue of his primacy is only Christ’s Vicar; so that there is only one chief Head of this Body, namely Christ, who never ceases Himself to guide the Church invisible, though at the same time He rules it visibly, through him who is His representative on earth. After His glorious Ascension into heaven this Church rested not on Him alone, but on Peter too, its visible foundation stone. That Christ and His Vicar constitute one only Head is the solemn teaching of Our predecessor of immortal memory Boniface VIII in the Apostolic Letter Unam Sanctam; and his successors have never ceased to repeat the same.57. Finally, while by His grace He provides for the continual growth of the Church, He yet refuses to dwell through sanctifying grace in those members that are wholly severed from the Body. This presence and activity of the Spirit of Jesus Christ is tersely and vigorously described by Our predecessor of immortal memory Leo XIII in his Encyclical Letter Divinum Illud in these words: “Let it suffice to say that, as Christ is the Head of the Church, so is the Holy Spirit her soul." Some related questions to consider:1) Can the members of the Body of the Church be also non-members at the same time (2+2=5)?2) Can the "one only Head" of the Church lead Her to hell? (Pius XII ^^)3) Can the Holy Spirit, the "soul" of the Church be filled with unholiness in Her doctrines, disciplines, liturgy and government? 4) Can the spotless and Immaculate Bride of the Lamb without spot, stain, or wrinkle, also be an adulterous prostitute?5) Can one be in any way in communion with both the Catholic Church and a non-Catholic sect/religion at the same time?Please check out these other related polls and vote if you haven't yet, this will aid people in gauging their sensus fidelium compared to other users of this forum as well as make logical connections about how to view the current crisis.Poll: What did Vatican 2 teach?Poll: Can the pope teach errors?Poll: Are heretics members of the Church?Poll: Visibility of the Church*Remember, if you don't vote, you don't have a voice*
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