Author Topic: What is "Traditional Catholic" ? (Read 10321 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2016, 09:23:18 AM »

I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. The CathInfo rules thread is still pinned near the top, the last time I checked. I explain the position very clearly.

This forum is for Traditional Catholics, period. If you are some kind of fringe, extremist, or malcontent, for whom VIRTUALLY ALL other "Traditional Catholics" are bad or anathema for some reason -- you won't last long on CathInfo.

For example, to be Traditional Catholic you have to believe the Crisis in the Church erupted after Vatican II. Not Vatican I, or the Council of Trent. If that is your "unique" opinion, you can go start your own Old Catholic forum or something.

If a CathInfo member woke up next Sunday morning and found himself in 1950, he would HAVE TO GO TO HIS LOCAL PARISH AND ATTEND MASS THERE. Anyone who says they wouldn't for some reason must leave CathInfo, because they're not really a Traditional Catholic.

Traditional Catholic is not a catch-all for every malcontent that opposes the mainstream Catholic Church! It's a very specific movement of those holding to the Tridentine Mass and Faith, which arose AFTER VATICAN II, specifically after the Novus Ordo Mass was implemented.

Everyone knows what a Traditional Catholic is. They attend the Tridentine Mass exclusively, and have left the Novus Ordo Mass behind them. Some are sedevacantist. Most are not. A few are Feeneyite. Most are not. Some believe the Conciliar Church is 100% evil, the Antichrist, while others believe there is some Catholicism left. They have varying political opinions. They have different weak spots, flaws and sins. Some send their children to public or private schools, while others homeschool. Some of the Trad women wear pants, but most prefer skirts/dresses, and some never wear pants.

My point is that there is a lot of variety among Traditional Catholics ("Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered."), but every last one of these Trads must be accepted as a fellow Catholic if you want to be a member of CathInfo.

We're not schismatic here, nor heretics, nor sectarian, nor some kind of cult.

I allow sedevacantists on CathInfo as a matter of principle, because in the history of the Catholic Church even saints have gotten the "pope question" wrong during grave times of papal confusion, such as the Great Schism. This PROVES that God won't hold it against us if we honestly get the Pope question wrong.

So I can confidently accept my sedevacantist fellow-Catholics as Catholics and not regret it at my Judgment.

However, anyone who refuses communion with other Catholics is a de-facto schismatic (schism means to Cut). We are NOT supposed to hold communion with schismatics. Nevertheless, I don't have to pass judgment on them "This man is not a Catholic." to simply ban him from CathInfo. I merely reject his verbal poison; I save the individual's judgment for God's tribunal.

Orthodox Catholic · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2016, 09:33:23 AM »

Quote from: Desmond

Zionism and Jewry are also tolerated for that matter.

Funny you should say that. I did see some of it, but I did not make a determination. Good to have it confirmed.

I would say, Zionism is supported and employed, like Modernism, because it is unknown here, and thus people do not realise they are doing it, they think they are doing something else, anit-zionist, anti-modernist.

Quote

OP: Why call oneself "Orthodox" Catholic if unaware of what Traditionalism even is...?

"Traditionalism" is a new one for me.

I did not say that I was unaware of what "Traditional Catholic" is, I already stated that it is a mixed bag. Each "traditional" site employs a subset of that mixed bag. Neither the total mixed bag nor each specific subset has been determined, and since it keeps changing, it probably never will.

My Faith is not something that keeps changing all the time, so I do not feel that I am part of the mixed bag. Since I found this site interesting, I thought I'd take a closer look. Since there are warnings, as well as banishments, I thought it best to obtain a clear understanding re what will get me banned.

I don't know enough about "Traditional" yet, to determine whether I accept it or reject it, and I don't accept it enough to say that I identify with it (either generally or at this particular site, which has specific likes and dislikes that are unclear, hence the thread). So I chose a handle that identifies me in context the site, the mixed bag.

Eg. as per one of my specific questions, I do not understand why some "traditional" positions are accepted here but others (eg. sedevacantists) are banned.

That is orthodox with a simple 'o', not Greek or Russian Orthodox. It means the opposite of heterodox, I identify with the One True Faith, the Four Marks.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2016, 09:51:35 AM »

A side comment from the peanut gallery-

I've heard it said a few times by priests in the past that the term "traditional catholic" is not the best term. If they could go back in time to the 70s and hit 'reset' on the movement, they would try to get people to call themselves "orthodox" catholic, since this has a specific and historical meaning, whereas "traditional" is sorta generalized and non-descript, like when one calls themselves politically "conservative" instead of a "constitutionalist" which clearly defines your beliefs.

If I could define "traditional" catholicism, in a nutshell, I would say we believe in the everything the Catholic Church has always taught, with a special emphasis on the following 3 popes, since their times were a precursor to the evils of our day, both spiritually, politically and economically: Bl Pope Pius IX, Pope St Leo XIII, and Pope St Pius X.

Orthodox Catholic · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2016, 10:10:40 AM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

To say this points you into the "dogmatic" category, because you mean to say that it is a matter of dogma to be accepted without dispute that such and such person is or isn't a legitimate pope.

I did not say that (you said that). I cannot defend what I did not say.

I am happy to defend, clarify or retract what I did say.

I did say that the Catholic position is dogmatic, and therefore (not the reversed sequence) the sedevacantist position is dogmatic. And therefore a non-dogmatic sedevacantist position, which would be a non-dogmatic Catholic position, is an absurdity (if I say it is heretical, I might get banned on my first day here!).

Whether the pope is a valid or legitimate Pope or whether he is Catholic or not is a separate matter (not divorced, not unrelated, but separate) which I did not post about, and I won't post about now, because I have seen endless arguments without resolution here on the subject, and I will not enter into them. I don't know enough about the sedevacantist position to say (and I did not previously say) that the pope issue is a dogmatic or indisputable one. You have read something into my words.

I may have a sharp intellect, which is a Grace, but when it comes to my beloved religion, which provisions and maintains that Grace, I am a very simple man. I don't have an opinion about abortions or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or natural birth control or Feeneyism or sedevacantism, because my religion tells me the truth, and I accept it without argument. Which is a second reason I will not participate in such arguments-without-resolution here, which I accept, you people evidently love.

By the Grace of God, I am already resolved. I have nothing to argue.

OHCA · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2016, 11:23:04 AM »

On one hand you are taking "non-dogmatic" sedevacantists to task for lukewarmness, yet it is quite evident that you are beating around the bush about something yourself. Beating around the bush is a form of timidity or lukewarmness. I initially thought you were simply a troll (you still may match that definition). But I think you want to assert a strong point (or points) but afraid to do so. There are nuggets in what you say that I agree with, so I am curious as to what you're trying to build up the courage to say. You have some axe to grind--quit being scared and lay it out.