Author Topic: What in the Hell are they Doing?  (Read 1894 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lover of Truth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8525
  • Reputation: +1094/-835
  • Gender: Male
What in the Hell are they Doing?
« on: July 25, 2016, 07:44:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I always thought the SSPX kept a traditional veneer about them but what in the world are they doing here?  Since when do we glorify the Lord with modern "art"?

    http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/hideous-sspx-church-madrid.htm

    Dedication scheduled for July 25

    House of Horrors:
    Hideous New SSPX Church in Madrid
    sspx-church-madrid2.jpg


    In Madrid, the capital of Spain, the Society of St. Pius X spent the last few years building a new church. The building has now been completed, and the solemn dedication ceremony is scheduled for this coming Monday, July 25, which coincides with the parish’s titular feast, for the church is dedicated to St. James the Greater, Apostle.

    Normally, none of this would be news, for the SSPX builds new parish churches around the globe all the time. The case of St. James the Apostle Church in Madrid, however, is different, because the exterior of the now-completed building is so hideous that it might as well be a Novus Ordo church. One may also easily mistake it for an office building, a library, or worse.

    Here are a few sample pictures of this monstrosity (click each photo to enlarge). Make no mistake about it, this church is no longer under construction — it’s done!


    sspx-church-madrid3.jpg

    The outer facade facing the main road
    sspx-church-madrid7.jpg

    Another view of the same
    sspx-church-madrid8.jpg

    The SSPX logo is plastered all over the outer wall
    sspx-church-madrid4.jpg

    These interesting windows face a side street
    sspx-church-madrid9.jpg

    A wider view
    sspx-church-madrid10.jpg

    A view from the corner


    You can check this out for yourself. Simply go to Google Maps and use Street View for the following address: Calle de Catalina Suárez, 16, 28007 Madrid, Spain.

    By the way, did you notice the odd-looking statue at the top of the building? Here is a close-up:
    sspx-church-madrid1.jpg


    What is this? The Grim Reaper? Actually, it is supposed to be the Blessed Virgin Mary, to whom the SSPX claims to be especially devoted. Here is a closer view still:
    sspx-church-madrid6.jpg


    No eyes, no mouth, and just a hideous overall appearance. How much this must have cost? Or perhaps it was a gift from the local Masonic Lodge?

    Lots more photos of the church, both during and after construction, can be found at the following links:

        The Frightening New Church of the SSPX in Spain
        Obras de la Capilla Santiago Apóstol, semana tras semanas
        La Neo-FSSPX invita a la Bendición de la Capilla esperpéntica de Madrid
        Capilla de arquitectura moderna para la FSSPX
        La Horrorosa Neo Iglesia de la Neo FSSPX en España
        Polemica arquitectura modernista de la Capilla de la FSSPX en Madrid España


    Bp. Alfonso de Galarreta is the District Superior for Spain and Portugal and will presumably be the celebrant for the dedication on July 25. No doubt we will get plenty more photos in a few days.

    Not much commentary is needed here. It seems that in Madrid the Lefebvrians are trying to out-Novus-Ordo the Novus Ordo, at least as far as exterior church architecture goes. No doubt, with this new Capilla de Santiago Apóstol — Chapel of St. James the Apostle — the SSPX will be yet another step closer to being fully accepted by Modernist Rome. At this point, the writing is, even quite literally, on the wall.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6019
    • Reputation: +3488/-329
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 08:46:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8525
    • Reputation: +1094/-835
    • Gender: Male
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5916
    • Reputation: +3258/-172
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
      • Julian Moore
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 05:46:55 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  

    So the Dimonds are tools of satan. And what about R&R? Are you really saying that the SSPX is a tool of satan to deceive? The resistance is R&R also. So the resistance is a tool of satan to deceive? What are you doing here? If you think the R&R traditional groups are tools of satan to deceive what are you doing here? This is officially an R&R forum. Why don't you go and haunt a sedevacantist forum with your slanders of those R&R supporters?
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1297
    • Reputation: +603/-63
    • Gender: Male
      • TraditionalCatholic.net
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 08:38:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  


    How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?


    They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.
    Omnes pro Christo


    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1297
    • Reputation: +603/-63
    • Gender: Male
      • TraditionalCatholic.net
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 08:50:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    the R & R's.  


    Father Shell supported the SSPX, and Bishop Williamson provided the Sacrament of Confirmation for him.  I had the great honor of hearing a Confirmation sermon from Bishop Williamson that I consider one of the most inspiration of my life.  I personally observe a condition of sede vacante that has befallen the Catholic Church, at the same time I support the R&R position that (to my understanding) is associated with Bishop Williamson.
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5916
    • Reputation: +3258/-172
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
      • Julian Moore
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 09:56:51 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matto
    So the Dimonds are tools of satan. And what about R&R? Are you really saying that the SSPX is a tool of satan to deceive? The resistance is R&R also. So the resistance is a tool of satan to deceive? What are you doing here? If you think the R&R traditional groups are tools of satan to deceive what are you doing here? This is officially an R&R forum. Why don't you go and haunt a sedevacantist forum with your slanders of those R&R supporters?

    I am sorry LOT, but I was very upset with you when I made this post. I do not like it when you insult the R&R position and those who hold it. That is why I don't like it when you post Novus Ordo Watch articles that say that only sedevacantists are real Catholics and that is why I got upset just a few minutes ago when you basically said that R&R people are tools of satan deceiving people and keeping them from the true faith. And I am not even R&R (I am not sedevacantist either. I am in between because I don't know which position is right). But I get upset when you or the articles you post say so many people who I love and see as good Catholics trying to do the will of God are not real Catholics. And I get upset when you say that those R&R supporters are not really honest Catholics trying to do the will of God but are really tools of satan deceiving people so they do not come to the truth. If you really believe that all non-sedevacantists are not really Catholics and that they are tools of satan deceiving others to keep them from the truth, you do not belong here.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1297
    • Reputation: +603/-63
    • Gender: Male
      • TraditionalCatholic.net
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 10:05:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  


    How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?


    They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.


    They offer easy access to Dogmas by citing them continuously. They show how things are heretical which are contrary to those Dogmas.
    The teaching has already been done by the Church. They don't claim to be the Authority or the origination of said Dogmas. Also, the only formation one needs to understand the plain meaning of a Dogma, is to understand words.


    They supplement Church teaching with their own misguided conjecture.
    Omnes pro Christo


    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1297
    • Reputation: +603/-63
    • Gender: Male
      • TraditionalCatholic.net
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 10:17:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  


    How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?


    They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.


    They offer easy access to Dogmas by citing them continuously. They show how things are heretical which are contrary to those Dogmas.
    The teaching has already been done by the Church. They don't claim to be the Authority or the origination of said Dogmas. Also, the only formation one needs to understand the plain meaning of a Dogma, is to understand words.


    They supplement Church teaching with their own misguided conjecture.

    Provide an example dealing with Dogma.


    From the article "Outside The Church There Is No Salvation And Refuting Baptism Of Desire"
    Quote
    Bro. Peter Dimond

    SESS. 6, CHAP. 4 OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

    OBJECTION– In Session 6, Chapter 4 of its Decree on Justification, the Council of Trent teaches that justification can take place through the water of baptism or the desire for it.

    ANSWER– No, it doesn’t.  It actually teaches that justification cannot take place without water baptism or the desire for it, as it is written: unless a man is born again of water and the Spirit he cannot be saved.  That’s quite different.


    As I recall, the paperdoll monk teaches with regard to the word "or" in a sense contrary to Canon Law.
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5916
    • Reputation: +3258/-172
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
      • Julian Moore
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 11:01:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: An even Seven

    In adults, one cannot be justified without desiring Baptism. If you read the Council's declaration on Penance you'll see that when the Desire for the Sacrament is all that is necessary, the Church takes the time to fully explain how. If the desire for Baptism were all that is necessary the Church would have explained it that way. Instead they have Canons stating that this is heretical opinion.

    Yes, I think this is a good point. Why didn't the fathers of Trent take the time to say "Sometimes God can provide the grace of justification before the reception of Baptism to those who desire Baptism and have perfect contrition for their sins. This is called Baptism of Desire and it brings justification to those souls who receive it although it does not remove the temporal punishment due to their sins. And sometimes God can provide the grace of Baptism to those who die as martyrs for the faith before they receive Baptism. This is called Baptism of Blood and those souls who receive it are justified and also have all the temporal punishment due to sin forgiven so that when they are martyred they go straight to heaven." If they had only said something like that we wouldn't have to have all these endless arguments and accusations of heresy because everything would be clear. And for the Feeneyites here, why didn't the Trent Fathers just say, after they said that "Baptism is necessary for salvation" that "If anyone believes that souls can receive justification before Baptism by their desire for the sacrament and their contrition for their sins, let him be anathema. And if anyone says that souls can be justified by dying for the faith without receiving the laver of regeneration, let him be anathema." I don't know for the life of me why the Church didn't do either of those things. This argument must have come up before because there were those who believed in BOD and BOB and those who denied them from the beginning of the Church.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1297
    • Reputation: +603/-63
    • Gender: Male
      • TraditionalCatholic.net
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 11:13:36 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I was not talking about the specifics of BoD here, but merely providing the requested example of illicit activity.  I would prefer that the poisonous opinions of pretend monks remain quarantined in the appropriate subsection.
    Omnes pro Christo


    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8525
    • Reputation: +1094/-835
    • Gender: Male
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 05:16:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  


    How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?


    The Dimonds take quotes out of context and cut out quotes that do not fit their agenda.  It has been proven that they are intellectually dishonest.  They lied about me once also so I witnessed this first hand but I have seen it proven in a Griff Ruby article.  The proof is in black and white and cannot be denied.  Like many Feeneyites they are not only hateful but they lie. And they really have no idea what they are talking about.  As if Pius V did not understand what Boniface meant or as if Pius XII contradicted himself or all the approved catechisms were wrong on this one point.  But people fall for it.  It is incredible.  And people that know better let them instead of defending the truth.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8525
    • Reputation: +1094/-835
    • Gender: Male
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 05:23:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  

    So the Dimonds are tools of satan. And what about R&R? Are you really saying that the SSPX is a tool of satan to deceive? The resistance is R&R also. So the resistance is a tool of satan to deceive? What are you doing here? If you think the R&R traditional groups are tools of satan to deceive what are you doing here? This is officially an R&R forum. Why don't you go and haunt a sedevacantist forum with your slanders of those R&R supporters?


    I'm willing to grant any legitimate point you have.  Please show me from any weighty work, pre-V2 catechism or theologian or better where a public heretic can be Pope.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8525
    • Reputation: +1094/-835
    • Gender: Male
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 05:24:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.  



    I'm afraid this is true.  Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's.  He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's.  I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.  


    How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?


    They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.


    And they deceive and lie.  They quite, frankly do not know what they are talking about when it comes to the BOD aspect of EENS.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8525
    • Reputation: +1094/-835
    • Gender: Male
    What in the Hell are they Doing?
    « Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 05:32:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    the R & R's.  


    Father Shell supported the SSPX, and Bishop Williamson provided the Sacrament of Confirmation for him.  I had the great honor of hearing a Confirmation sermon from Bishop Williamson that I consider one of the most inspiration of my life.  I personally observe a condition of sede vacante that has befallen the Catholic Church, at the same time I support the R&R position that (to my understanding) is associated with Bishop Williamson.


    There is no doubt that some holy people can be R & R.  Many put SVs to shame in regards to personal sanctify probably, just a guess, I don't know, but I'm willing to grant it as I know it is possible.  Many R & R's will be saved.  SV is not officially bound on anyone.  

    All that being said, it if we can stick to the brass tacks here, as the bald truth should be all that interests us.

    1.  Is it Catholic to refuse submission to a valid Pope

    2.  Is it Catholic to accept a non-Catholic/public heretic as a valid Pope

    I can certainly tolerate other people disagreeing, but their disagreement has to be based on Catholic teaching - they have to argue WHY the position that one must submit to the Pope and that a public heretic cannot be Pope wrong, and not simply say, "Oh man, that is so radical, so mean, you narrow-minded!"

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16