Author Topic: What in the Hell are they Doing? (Read 5993 times)

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2016, 08:50:23 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

the R & R's.

Father Shell supported the SSPX, and Bishop Williamson provided the Sacrament of Confirmation for him. I had the great honor of hearing a Confirmation sermon from Bishop Williamson that I consider one of the most inspiration of my life. I personally observe a condition of sede vacante that has befallen the Catholic Church, at the same time I support the R&R position that (to my understanding) is associated with Bishop Williamson.

Matto · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:56:51 PM »

Quote from: Matto

So the Dimonds are tools of satan. And what about R&R? Are you really saying that the SSPX is a tool of satan to deceive? The resistance is R&R also. So the resistance is a tool of satan to deceive? What are you doing here? If you think the R&R traditional groups are tools of satan to deceive what are you doing here? This is officially an R&R forum. Why don't you go and haunt a sedevacantist forum with your slanders of those R&R supporters?

I am sorry LOT, but I was very upset with you when I made this post. I do not like it when you insult the R&R position and those who hold it. That is why I don't like it when you post Novus Ordo Watch articles that say that only sedevacantists are real Catholics and that is why I got upset just a few minutes ago when you basically said that R&R people are tools of satan deceiving people and keeping them from the true faith. And I am not even R&R (I am not sedevacantist either. I am in between because I don't know which position is right). But I get upset when you or the articles you post say so many people who I love and see as good Catholics trying to do the will of God are not real Catholics. And I get upset when you say that those R&R supporters are not really honest Catholics trying to do the will of God but are really tools of satan deceiving people so they do not come to the truth. If you really believe that all non-sedevacantists are not really Catholics and that they are tools of satan deceiving others to keep them from the truth, you do not belong here.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:05:30 PM »

Quote from: An even Seven

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: An even Seven
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: MyrnaM
I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.

I'm afraid this is true. Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's. He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's. I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.

How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?

They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.

They offer easy access to Dogmas by citing them continuously. They show how things are heretical which are contrary to those Dogmas.
The teaching has already been done by the Church. They don't claim to be the Authority or the origination of said Dogmas. Also, the only formation one needs to understand the plain meaning of a Dogma, is to understand words.

They supplement Church teaching with their own misguided conjecture.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:17:10 PM »

Quote from: An even Seven

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: An even Seven
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: An even Seven
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: MyrnaM
I said this before and I will say it again, when I first heard about SSPX shortly after I came to CMRI, I was told by so many that SSPX would eventually take their laity back into Vatican II through the back door, and that is what I see.

I'm afraid this is true. Satan tries to get people through various organizations and apostates who are more awake to reality than the NO's. He does this through SBS, the Dimonds and the R & R's. I would not be the least surprised if there are plants within the SV to undermine the position as well through their words and actions.

How do the Dimonds do this? Proof?

They teach without formation, authority, or oversight.

They offer easy access to Dogmas by citing them continuously. They show how things are heretical which are contrary to those Dogmas.
The teaching has already been done by the Church. They don't claim to be the Authority or the origination of said Dogmas. Also, the only formation one needs to understand the plain meaning of a Dogma, is to understand words.

They supplement Church teaching with their own misguided conjecture.

Provide an example dealing with Dogma.

From the article "Outside The Church There Is No Salvation And Refuting Baptism Of Desire"

Quote

Bro. Peter Dimond

SESS. 6, CHAP. 4 OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

OBJECTION– In Session 6, Chapter 4 of its Decree on Justification, the Council of Trent teaches that justification can take place through the water of baptism or the desire for it.

ANSWER– No, it doesn’t. It actually teaches that justification cannot take place without water baptism or the desire for it, as it is written: unless a man is born again of water and the Spirit he cannot be saved. That’s quite different.

As I recall, the paperdoll monk teaches with regard to the word "or" in a sense contrary to Canon Law.

Matto · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:01:52 PM »

Quote from: An even Seven

In adults, one cannot be justified without desiring Baptism. If you read the Council's declaration on Penance you'll see that when the Desire for the Sacrament is all that is necessary, the Church takes the time to fully explain how. If the desire for Baptism were all that is necessary the Church would have explained it that way. Instead they have Canons stating that this is heretical opinion.

Yes, I think this is a good point. Why didn't the fathers of Trent take the time to say "Sometimes God can provide the grace of justification before the reception of Baptism to those who desire Baptism and have perfect contrition for their sins. This is called Baptism of Desire and it brings justification to those souls who receive it although it does not remove the temporal punishment due to their sins. And sometimes God can provide the grace of Baptism to those who die as martyrs for the faith before they receive Baptism. This is called Baptism of Blood and those souls who receive it are justified and also have all the temporal punishment due to sin forgiven so that when they are martyred they go straight to heaven." If they had only said something like that we wouldn't have to have all these endless arguments and accusations of heresy because everything would be clear. And for the Feeneyites here, why didn't the Trent Fathers just say, after they said that "Baptism is necessary for salvation" that "If anyone believes that souls can receive justification before Baptism by their desire for the sacrament and their contrition for their sins, let him be anathema. And if anyone says that souls can be justified by dying for the faith without receiving the laver of regeneration, let him be anathema." I don't know for the life of me why the Church didn't do either of those things. This argument must have come up before because there were those who believed in BOD and BOB and those who denied them from the beginning of the Church.