The basics I've spoken about many times. I'm talking about the basics, or origins of the Traditional Movement, which began immediately after the New Mass was promulgated in 1969.

There was no question of any Indult, I'll tell you that. So from the beginning, "Traditional Catholics" were not concerned with permission from Rome to stay Catholic and aloof from the Modernist heresy and madness taking over Rome, personified in Vatican II, the Conciliar Church, and the Novus Ordo Mass and everything connected with it.

The first talk of any permission to say the Tridentine Mass was 1984, and it really didn't get going until 1988, AFTER Archbishop Lefebvre made his decisive move to consecrate (4) Traditional bishops for the continuation and survival of Tradition. And even then, when did most cities get their Indult? Probably sometime after that, possibly not until 2006 or after, with "Summorum Pontificuм" of Benedict XVI.

So what are the basics of the Traditional Movement?

1. Complete aloofness and leaving behind of the Conciliar Church structure. No attendance at Novus Ordo Masses, confessionals, or visits with Novus Ordo priests or churches (except for sightseeing). That is REGARDLESS OF THE EXISTENCE OR LACK OF TRADITIONAL ALTERNATIVES. Completely "let the dead bury their dead" and shake the dust from your feet, EXCEPT you can pray for their enlightenment and conversion. But no truck/commerce/traffic/intercourse is had with them, with the deluded hope of influencing or converting them.

2. Seeking out lifeboats, which is to say: true Priests and true Masses (Tridentine Mass) wherever they can be found, from any priest willing to offer it. If the priest is valid (certain) and he offers the true Mass, and he was formed Traditional, than you are 100% good to go. This goes for Mass AND all the Sacraments, including Baptism, Penance, Confirmation, and Matrimony. What about permission from Rome? *crickets chirping* Traditional Catholics learn in Lesson 1 that "we don't need permission from any man, not even the Pope, to keep the Faith, save our souls, or remain Catholic!" It's not just a right, it's actually a duty to do these things (keep the Faith, serve God with proper religion, including the true Mass, and save our souls).

Noticeably absent from this list: what specific pre-Vatican II missal the priest must use, the status of the Pope, and many other opinions, distractions, and side-issues.

I tell you that in the 1970's Traditional Catholics of all sorts of opinions and backgrounds used to sit side-by-side in the pews. Every person had his private opinion about a wide variety of topics. There were sedevacantists in every chapel. Some leaned more toward the "Indult" position, but they didn't have a way to express this yet. But everyone kept their eyes on the prize: weekly (or, as frequent as they could get it) Mass and reception of the Sacraments, recitation of the Rosary, catechism lessons for their children, etc.

Everyone did what they could to survive this time of confusion, and hopefully emerge with their Faith intact. The devil didn't succeed in splintering Trads into 15 different groups until much later...

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Speaking of banning, PG, I wish you would have been banned for your continued attacks on St. Louis De Montfort and Our Lady, but alas we can't all get what we want. Nothing personal.  :cheers: I generally enjoy your wit and posts about scythes and things such as that, but your ideas on the great Marian saint are just too much. 

Matthew - I have one word for you.  Husbandry.  You are better off just sticking with the buzzphase "back to basics" than describing it.  The only place I can agree with you is in the permission category.  We do not need permission from Rome to convert her.  However, you illustrated that you are not interested in converting her.  So, our concept of permission(its means and ends) is significantly different.  Fortunately for all of us, including you, what you are imagining will never materialize.  Outside of that, I sadly do not agree with nearly anything else you said.