Author Topic: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.  (Read 1299 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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In just 12 years after the Papal Motu Proprio, the fruits of it have been so manifest that, by the Grace of God and Our Lady, and while there still remains a lot of work to do over the next few decades to realize it, there is a real possibility that the TLM will become the Dominant Liturgy as soon as 2050.

See Fr. Donald Kloster's article at LiturgyGuy: https://liturgyguy.com/2018/10/08/vocations-foundations/ "This past year, I have been doing a National Study on the TLM only parishes in the USA. Currently, there are around 70 of these but they are exploding in numbers with each passing year because the TLM priestly vocations are outpacing Novus Ordo priestly vocations by more than 7 to 1. My preliminary numbers are exceeding my initial expectations. There is a huge wave transforming the Catholic landscape and it is largely being ignored by the Catholic leadership.  I can now say what I suspected last year. The Novus Ordo is dying and it will be replaced by the Vetus Ordo sooner than anyone had foreseen, but certainly by 2050 the TLM will be the dominant liturgical practice once again. My instincts tell me that 30-50% of the current vocations coming from the Traditional Latin Mass were not raised in it. Next year, I’ll try to test that feeling with the aforementioned study. A great number of the young men and women entering the TLM orders discovered it themselves; it wasn’t their family upbringing."

Also, this earlier article: https://liturgyguy.com/2017/09/12/what-benedict-accomplished-with-summorum-pontificum/ Thoughts?

Finally, those who say +ABL would not have supported such a Papal decree are entirely mistaken, +ABL asked for something like it for a long time - "The only little success which might be on the way is this famous decree still in suspense, still being put off, a decree to enable all priests to say the old Mass, to leave them freedom and no longer to persecute them. Now, this decree was due to appear, but for three years they have been talking about it and for three years it has still not been published. For, you must realize that, at present, the situation at Rome is very difficult. Modernism is still all-powerful at Rome. The Modernist and progressive Cardinals are in the majority; thus, even if there are one or two cardinals who are more or less traditionalists and who have at least a desire to come back to Tradition, well, they are immediately stopped by five or six cardinals who have all power and who put pressure on the Holy Father to stop any return to Tradition. It is they who are preventing this decree from appearing. They say to the Pope, "If you make this decree appear, if you liberate the old Mass, the traditional Mass, then everything that we have done since the Council is over and done with."

There is a true struggle going on in Rome between the few traditionalist Cardinals - Cardinal Oddi, Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Pallazini, on one side, and all the progressive cardinals on the other: Cardinal Casaroli, Cardinal Pironio, Cardinal Baggio; and all those who are in the Congregations of Worship: Cardinal Casoria with Mgr. Virgilio Noe; and then in the Congregation of Faith, Mgr. Hamer, a Dominican, all these are Modernists and each time that they go to see the Pope they say, "Above all, no turning back, no return to Tradition, out of the question!" http://archives.sspx.org/archbishop_lefebvre/long_island_conference_1983.htm

What Benedict Accomplished with Summorum Pontificum


On September 14 the Church celebrates the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross commemorating the 4th century recovery of the True Cross by St. Helena, mother of Emperor Constantine. This year [2017] the date also marks the tenth anniversary of the implementation of Pope Benedict’s landmark motu proprio, Summorum Pontificum. Thousands of words and hundreds of articles and books have been written in the last ten years celebrating the motu proprio and its significant impact upon the Church and her liturgy. More than any of its other accomplishments, however, Summorum Pontificum finally reaffirmed that the traditional Latin Mass (which Benedict labeled the Extraordinary Form) could no longer be marginalized by the Church.
Quote
Quote What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful.

With this one sentence, with a mere twenty seven words (twenty seven thunderous words) Pope Benedict told the world’s bishops that the Traditional Latin Mass was sacred; that it had always been sacred and would always be sacred; and that none of the faithful could be harmed by a liturgy which had fed & formed Catholics for centuries. Seismic words which shook a liturgical landscape.
Quote
Quote What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful.

These words were written to the world’s bishops in the Holy Father’s letter which accompanied Summorom Pontificum’s release. They were blunt words but necessary to say.

For decades episcopal ideologues had condemned the traditional Mass, ghettoized it, and demeaned its faithful adherents. While never formally abrogated, its suppression was nearly complete and universal. A de facto abrogation. With Summorum Pontificum the Mass of the Ages could no longer be marginalized.

This is not to say, however, that the persecution of tradition has ended. Of course it hasn’t. To claim such a thing would be ridiculous and naive. Far too many bishops still act as if Summorum was a non-event.

In recent years Rome has decried rigidity the greatest evil and many careerist are quick to echo those sentiments. For those who bristle at orthodoxy, who seek to innovate in matters of timeless doctrine, the timeless traditional liturgy is rightfully viewed as a threat to their agenda. Lex  orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.

Ten years after Pope Benedict liberated the ancient Rite the ideologues still protest. Some wait for Rome to act. Rumors persist that Pope Francis will rescind it with his own motu proprio when the time is right, possibly when his predecessor passes.
Regardless of what the future holds in store, Benedict has already stated the irreversible liturgical truth: the traditional Mass can not be marginalized.

The legacy of Summorum Pontificum, indeed the victory of Summorum Pontificum, can be found in the very seminarians and priests formed and ordained during Benedict’s papacy. They are not ideologues of the post-conciliar revolution. They are simply men who have been introduced to tradition and who have responded to it. For them, what was sacred will always remain sacred. They will not unlearn this lesson.

Its victory can also be found in thriving traditional parishes, increased Mass attendance, and booming traditional orders and vocations. The faithful simply want to be fully Catholic once again, members of a Church that didn’t just begin in 1965.

If you are fortunate enough to have discovered the ancient Rite, be sure to thank God for such a blessing. Thank Him and hold nothing back. Immerse yourself in the supreme prayer of the Church, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as it has been offered in the Roman Rite for centuries.

And in your kindness, please say a prayer for our pope emeritus Benedict as well.
"Take my advice and every day in Mass ask God to make you a great Saint"-St. Leonard. Go for Holy Mass every day to receive the Holy Body and Precious Blood of God. Do never skip Holy Mass for even one single day, if you want to become a Saint, as the Saints tell us, we should all aspire to become.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 11:30:31 AM »
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  • Absolute hogwash.  In most diocese, it's the same 20 people who attended TLM under the Indult that are still there (usually at the same parishes) under the Motu.

    Motu was nothing but a sleight-of-hand attempt to deceive Traditional Catholics.  Under the JP2 Indult, the TLM was forbidden unless permitted by the bishop.  Now with the Motu, it's permitted unless forbidden.  In other words, it reduces to the exact same thing.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 11:46:23 AM »
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  • there is a real possibility that the TLM will become the Dominant Liturgy as soon as 2050.

    Unfortunately, the Liturgical part of the crisis is not over until the TLM is the ONLY Liturgy left (in the Roman Rite).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #3 on: September 29, 2019, 11:48:00 AM »
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  • I told you.  XavierSem is NOT a Traditional Catholic.  Traditional Catholics are not content for the True Faith and the True Mass to be given a place in the Novus Ordo pantheon.  Until Christ the King reigns and the Novus Ordo abomination is rid from the face of the earth, the crisis continues.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2019, 01:14:37 PM »
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  • Xavier says there’s a “possibility” of good happening...in 2050?  30 yrs from now?!  And it’s only a possibility?  What kind of prediction is that?  In other words, you have a dream; but no plan.  No reality on how to achieve the goal.  You are high on hope-ium.
    .


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 08:35:43 PM »
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  • I told you.  XavierSem is NOT a Traditional Catholic.  Traditional Catholics are not content for the True Faith and the True Mass to be given a place in the Novus Ordo pantheon.  Until Christ the King reigns and the Novus Ordo abomination is rid from the face of the earth, the crisis continues.
    I realize you have doubt about this, and that's fair, but *if* Francis is in fact the Roman Pontiff we should want communion with him.  I don't think that necessitates accepting the Novus Ordo as good or licit, but it does seem to mean being willing to accept a personal prelature or something like that.  YOu don't get to break communion with the legitimate hierarchy because *they* aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

    If they're actually antipopes I realize that's a different story.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 03:11:04 AM »
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  • I realize you have doubt about this, and that's fair, but *if* Francis is in fact the Roman Pontiff we should want communion with him.  I don't think that necessitates accepting the Novus Ordo as good or licit, but it does seem to mean being willing to accept a personal prelature or something like that.  YOu don't get to break communion with the legitimate hierarchy because *they* aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

    If they're actually antipopes I realize that's a different story.

    If these men are/were undoubtedly legitimate popes, the SSPX should have made haste to re-enter full Communion with them LONG ago, along the lines of an FSSP.

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 10:16:59 AM »
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  • Xavier says there’s a “possibility” of good happening...in 2050?  30 yrs from now?!  
    Yes, it's realistic, and it'll take a lot of effort and prayer to get there. It won't happen overnight without miraculous intervention, and it's not unreasonable to say so. But what's your plan, btw? Disrupt the SSPX in its efforts to get there, and attack the FSSP, ICK etc as non-traditional? Ridiculous. After 50 years of doing that, how many united Priests do you sede vacantists/privationists have and how far to convincing all Priests to offer the TLM have you come? There are some 415000 Priests in the mainstream Church. Can you show me 500 sede Priests? And you say you have a plan? The SSPV even questions the sede Thuc line. Great prospects there.

    I've mentioned one plan before: in France, Archbishop Lefebvre's own country, 20% of new Ordinations are Traditional - i.e. SSPX, FSSP, ICK etc - there's a very good prospect that in just 20 years, based on retirement rates and new Ordination rates, by 2038, Traditional Priests will be more than mainstream Priests i.e. more than 50 % of all Priests. I'm not going to document it again for those who want to continue to be blind to reality. It is only in that way that we can plan the triumph of Tradition.

    It is the petition we make in my (and most) SSPX chapels after the hymn to Saint Pius X (Sancte Pie Decime, Gloriose Patrone, Ora Pro Nobis), "O Lord grant us Priests. O Lord grant us many Priests. O Lord grant us many holy Priests. O Lord grant us many religious vocations. O Lord grant us Catholic Families". We need abundant vocations from Catholic Families, in particular many Priests laboring for souls. Like at least 10,000 solely from Traditional Fraternities in the next 30 years. Sede-ism has not produced that in more than 50.

    But that will require (1) SSPX, FSSP and ICK firmly united and working together (2) saying no to non-Catholic silliness like SV, EV etc. If one believes there's nothing that can be done to bring Tradition back to Rome, then one will not even attempt efforts toward Restoration.

    Quote from: Liarslaus
    XavierSem is NOT a Traditional Catholic [Sedevacantist Sectarian]
    Yes, you're a sedevacantist sectarian, and I am not. We know that, and I've given you incontrovertible reasons elsewhere that 61 year SVism leads to total heresy. I can easily prove the true traditional Catholic position on the TLM's superiority to the NOM from (1) Archbishop Lefebvre (2) Bishop Fellay, (3) Fr. Gleize and even (4) Bishop Williamson. And even from (4) The first principles of Traditional Catholic Theology on Validity and Integrity. Take the examples of Baptism, and Exorcism. Holy Baptism is valid and confers grace even if nothing else is said but "I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", yet it is not normally allowable to baptize merely like that. The reason being, that is not an integral Baptism, and so many graces would be lost. Similarly, the true opinion on the New Mass is that it is vastly inferior to the TLM, because it is not an integral Mass, but a truncated one. This can more easily be seen by the example Archbishop Lefebvre gave of Cardinal Mindszentsy offering Holy Mass in Prison with little more than the Words of Consecration. That was, +ABL says, both a valid Sacrament and Sacrifices; but the graces would be less. I'm not obliged to explain anymore to someone as boorish and polemical as yourself, but read this and you will see the true opinion: "Archbishop Lefebvre also said: “I never denied that these Masses said faithfully according to the Novus Ordo were valid; nor did I ever say that they were heretical or blasphemous.”2 Careful, therefore! Let us be firm, but let us not be simplistic." http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=3501 The true opinion is that an NOM would have like 1/100th of the TLM's graces. Archbishop Lefebvre also said, "Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation." https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

    Therefore, the TLM is necessary and must be restored everywhere; otherwise the Church and the Faithful, and even the world, will be starved of the graces it desperately needs, as we in fact observe in the world. And also, that the TLM alone gives the greatest glory to God is enough for any Priest to offer it exclusively.

    It is only after Summorum Pontificum that an injustice that existed for nearly 40 years prior to it has been corrected; and not completely. 
    "Take my advice and every day in Mass ask God to make you a great Saint"-St. Leonard. Go for Holy Mass every day to receive the Holy Body and Precious Blood of God. Do never skip Holy Mass for even one single day, if you want to become a Saint, as the Saints tell us, we should all aspire to become.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #8 on: September 30, 2019, 10:47:07 AM »
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  • Yes, you're a sedevacantist sectarian, and I am not. 

    No, I'm not.  I've explained this a dozen times.  I am what I have called a sede-doubtist.  You on the other hand presumably believe with the certainty of faith that these men are popes, and also that there's no theological reason to prefer SSPX over, say, FSSP.  That makes you a schismatic for being out of full communion with the Church without adequate justification.

    Canon Lawyers teach that someone is not schismatic if he refuses submission due to doubts about the Pope's legitimacy, so I am not schismatic.  You, on the other hand, are.  Consequently, your calling me a schismatic is like the black pot calling the white china "black".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #9 on: September 30, 2019, 10:51:20 AM »
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  • We know that, and I've given you incontrovertible reasons elsewhere that 61 year SVism leads to total heresy. I can easily prove the true traditional Catholic position on the TLM's superiority to the NOM from (1) Archbishop Lefebvre (2) Bishop Fellay, (3) Fr. Gleize and even (4) Bishop Williamson.

    No, you've been completely debunked over and over again regarding your so-called "incontrovertible reasons".  As for attempting to claim the support of +Lefebvre et al. regarding the "superiority" of the TLM over the NOM, give us a break; you have a lot of audacity. You are slandering them by pretending they support your position.  +Lefebvre et al. held that the NOM was positively defective, a "bastard rite", and should not be attended by Catholics.  You water this down into the TLM is "superior" to the NOM, and that the NOM gives "less grace" due to being truncated.  If you do not hold that the NOM is positively harmful and defective, then you are not a Traditional Catholic.

    If someone like you, with this thinking, has been accepted into the neo-SSPX seminary, then the demise of the SSPX is already at hand.  I am less disturbed by your thinking (people who think like you are a dime a dozen, although they're usually females) than by the fact that the SSPX has no problems with it.

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #10 on: September 30, 2019, 11:06:30 AM »
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  • No, you've been completely debunked over and over again regarding your so-called "incontrovertible reasons".  As for attempting to claim the support of +Lefebvre et al. regarding the "superiority" of the TLM over the NOM, give us a break; you have a lot of audacity. You are slandering them by pretending they support your position.  +Lefebvre et al. held that the NOM was positively defective, a "bastard rite", and should not be attended by Catholics.  You water this down into the TLM is "superior" to the NOM, and that the NOM gives "less grace" due to being truncated.  If you do not hold that the NOM is positively harmful and defective, then you are not a Traditional Catholic.

    If someone like you, with this thinking, has been accepted into the neo-SSPX seminary, then the demise of the SSPX is already at hand.  I am less disturbed by your thinking (people who think like you are a dime a dozen, although they're usually females) than by the fact that the SSPX has no problems with it.
    Xavier is an SSPX seminarian?


    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #11 on: September 30, 2019, 11:10:43 AM »
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  • I told you.  XavierSem is NOT a Traditional Catholic. Traditional Catholics are not content for the True Faith and the True Mass to be given a place in the Novus Ordo pantheon.  Until Christ the King reigns and the Novus Ordo abomination is rid from the face of the earth, the crisis continues.
    I've noticed that attitude among many younger people.  I believe it is because they have no idea what being a Catholic was like before the insanity of VII took hold and the NOM was shoved down our throats.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #12 on: September 30, 2019, 11:14:07 AM »
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  • Xavier is an SSPX seminarian?

    I'm not sure if he is or is just aspiring to be.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #13 on: September 30, 2019, 11:19:16 AM »
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  • Quote
    XavierSem is NOT a Traditional Catholic.
    All I had to see was the title of his thread, calling B-16 "His Holiness". I cringe just to hear it. There is NOTHING holy about any VatII pope, specially Ratzinger the VatII periti in a suit.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: What His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI accomplished with Summorum Pontificum.
    « Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 11:22:32 AM »
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  • All I had to see was the title of his thread, calling B-16 "His Holiness". I cringe just to hear it. There is NOTHING holy about any VatII pope, specially Ratzinger the VatII periti in a suit.
    It doesn't take much for someone to consider themselves "traditional" these days so bad everything is.  A preference for the old Mass usually does it.
    As Fr. Doran always told us, back in the day, it takes a lot more than the old Mass to make a traditional Catholic.


     

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