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Author Topic: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?  (Read 7160 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2023, 10:28:50 AM »
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  • I think there's also a lot of grifters who know where their bread is buttered among the lay-theologian, Trad Inc. types.

    THIS^^^.  I was just saying this to my wife, that we have a cadre of these lay "apologists" who basically make their living that way, and they cannot afford to alienate a large percentage of their listeners and thereby endanger their livelihood, folks like Taylor Marshall who can afford to jet-set around the world, taking his family on pilgrimages, etc. ... all from writing a book or two and doing his podcasts.  He can't afford to alienate the conservative Novus Ordites who likely comprise the vast majority of his audience and his financial support by adopting an unpopular opinion.  I at least give Patrick Coffin credit for that, for his personal integrity, in that he took a large hit after being cancelled from both EWTN and Ignatius Press upon going Bennyvacantist and supporting +Vigano.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #31 on: January 09, 2023, 12:55:11 PM »
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  • THIS^^^.  I was just saying this to my wife, that we have a cadre of these lay "apologists" who basically make their living that way, and they cannot afford to alienate a large percentage of their listeners and thereby endanger their livelihood, folks like Taylor Marshall who can afford to jet-set around the world, taking his family on pilgrimages, etc. ... all from writing a book or two and doing his podcasts.  He can't afford to alienate the conservative Novus Ordites who likely comprise the vast majority of his audience and his financial support by adopting an unpopular opinion.  I at least give Patrick Coffin credit for that, for his personal integrity, in that he took a large hit after being cancelled from both EWTN and Ignatius Press upon going Bennyvacantist and supporting +Vigano.
    This is why I respect Louie Verrecchio.  He has changed his views a number of times, and I'm sure that has greatly affected his readership. 


    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #32 on: January 09, 2023, 01:35:50 PM »
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  • Those who held to Benedict XVI as the true pope are hoping for the next pope to be elected by the cardinals appointed by Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #33 on: January 09, 2023, 01:36:12 PM »
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  • This is why I respect Louie Verrecchio.  He has changed his views a number of times, and I'm sure that has greatly affected his readership.

    Yes. Lad mentioned Peter Coffin. I'll mention Gerry Matatics, who probably was "bigger" than either and who has dwindled down much further as a result of his home alonism: he does broadcasts almost nightly on his Facebook page with sometimes less than half a dozen now tuning in. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #34 on: January 09, 2023, 02:43:11 PM »
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  • This is why I respect Louie Verrecchio.  He has changed his views a number of times, and I'm sure that has greatly affected his readership.

    In order for me to respect anyone's opinion, I need to see them having changed it at least once.  If you haven't changed your mind about something at least once given this horrific crisis, then you're either ...

    1) divinely inspired genius
    2) incredibly stupid
    3) stubbornly clinging to your position due to ego and bad will

    I've never met anyone in category 1, so that leaves 2 or 3, and in 90% of all cases it's #3, as few people are dumb enough not to be able to even think about alternative opinions.

    There's a big stigma out there about "flip-flopping".  To me it's a sign of intellectual honesty.  Of course we don't flip-flop religions nor do we flip-flop regarding the defined truths of the faith, as these we hold certain with the certainty of faith, but with most other issues, this breakdown applies.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #35 on: January 09, 2023, 02:46:21 PM »
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  • Yes. Lad mentioned Peter Coffin. I'll mention Gerry Matatics, who probably was "bigger" than either and who has dwindled down much further as a result of his home alonism: he does broadcasts almost nightly on his Facebook page with sometimes less than half a dozen now tuning in.

    Agreed.  He's made a huge sacrifice in having adopted his position.  Whether you agree with him or not (and I don't, as I think that his talents are wasted and I wish he'd start receiving the Sacraments), at least he has conviction and is willing to make the sacrifice for truth.  Also, he too is in the category of those who have changed their mind about some things here and there, thus also demonstrating intellectual honesty.

    I wish he'd wake up and realize that his over-legalization of the Church is totally contrary to what Our Lord taught about the Pharisaical observance of the Law.  Church Law is written for the service of souls, not to harm them.  During the Arian crisis, there were many Catholic Bishops who were sidelined when Arians took over the Sees, and other Catholic bishops went around consecrating parallel replacements for the Arians.  St. Robert Bellarmine cites the fact that those excommunicated by Nestorius, even before he was officially condemned, were not in fact excommunicated, but remained in good standing with the Church.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #36 on: January 09, 2023, 02:54:32 PM »
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  • In order for me to respect anyone's opinion, I need to see them having changed it at least once.  If you haven't changed your mind about something at least once given this horrific crisis, then you're either ...

    1) divinely inspired genius
    2) incredibly stupid
    3) stubbornly clinging to your position due to ego and bad will

    I've never met anyone in category 1, so that leaves 2 or 3, and in 90% of all cases it's #3, as few people are dumb enough not to be able to even think about alternative opinions.

    There's a big stigma out there about "flip-flopping".  To me it's a sign of intellectual honesty.  Of course we don't flip-flop religions nor do we flip-flop regarding the defined truths of the faith, as these we hold certain with the certainty of faith, but with most other issues, this breakdown applies.

    Absolutely agree. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #37 on: January 09, 2023, 04:12:43 PM »
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  • THIS^^^.  I was just saying this to my wife, that we have a cadre of these lay "apologists" who basically make their living that way, and they cannot afford to alienate a large percentage of their listeners and thereby endanger their livelihood, folks like Taylor Marshall who can afford to jet-set around the world, taking his family on pilgrimages, etc. ... all from writing a book or two and doing his podcasts.  He can't afford to alienate the conservative Novus Ordites who likely comprise the vast majority of his audience and his financial support by adopting an unpopular opinion.  I at least give Patrick Coffin credit for that, for his personal integrity, in that he took a large hit after being cancelled from both EWTN and Ignatius Press upon going Bennyvacantist and supporting +Vigano.
    I have a mutual on Twitter who expressed the exact same criticisms of Dr. Marshal this morning. The guy apparently makes $20k/month through Patreon alone, I don't see him compromising his positions and losing that. It's irritating to see people clamor to these types, especially since I used to be among them. :facepalm:
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #38 on: January 09, 2023, 08:43:16 PM »
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  • We live in an age where an army of laypeople listens to another army of laypeople for their 'Doctrine'.  

    I went to a Novus Ordo presentation years ago where the 'priest' sat in the front row while a well-known layman from Catholic Answers was doing the teaching and spoon feeding the masses.  SAD  

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #39 on: January 10, 2023, 05:58:59 AM »
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  • In order for me to respect anyone's opinion, I need to see them having changed it at least once.  If you haven't changed your mind about something at least once given this horrific crisis, then you're either ...

    1) divinely inspired genius
    2) incredibly stupid
    3) stubbornly clinging to your position due to ego and bad will

    I've never met anyone in category 1, so that leaves 2 or 3, and in 90% of all cases it's #3, as few people are dumb enough not to be able to even think about alternative opinions.

    There's a big stigma out there about "flip-flopping".  To me it's a sign of intellectual honesty.  Of course we don't flip-flop religions nor do we flip-flop regarding the defined truths of the faith, as these we hold certain with the certainty of faith, but with most other issues, this breakdown applies.
    Well that gives me hope; as I tend to equate my multiple changes of opinion on these topics with my fickle and gullible femaleness. LOL! 

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #40 on: January 10, 2023, 06:14:52 AM »
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  • I have a mutual on Twitter who expressed the exact same criticisms of Dr. Marshal this morning. The guy apparently makes $20k/month through Patreon alone, I don't see him compromising his positions and losing that. It's irritating to see people clamor to these types, especially since I used to be among them. :facepalm:
    People are desperate for pastors. If they cannot get the real thing - and right now, no one can - they often settle for the facsimiles. And this, in order to medicate their pain and anguish over the loss of male authority.

    Who is not wounded to the core because "the Sovereign, the Lord of hosts, [hath taken away] ... the valiant and the strong ... the strong man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the cunning man, and the ancient. The captain over fifty, and the honourable in countenance, and the counsellor, and the architect, and the skillful in eloquent speech. And [He hath given] children to be [our] princes, and the effeminate ... rule over [us]."

    We are all wounded to the core. We are all that "certain man" who "fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him, went away, leaving him half dead."


    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #41 on: January 10, 2023, 06:15:37 AM »
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  • We live in an age where an army of laypeople listens to another army of laypeople for their 'Doctrine'. 

    I went to a Novus Ordo presentation years ago where the 'priest' sat in the front row while a well-known layman from Catholic Answers was doing the teaching and spoon feeding the masses.  SAD 
    'Tis all by design. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #42 on: January 10, 2023, 06:42:18 AM »
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  • I have a mutual on Twitter who expressed the exact same criticisms of Dr. Marshal this morning. The guy apparently makes $20k/month through Patreon alone, I don't see him compromising his positions and losing that. It's irritating to see people clamor to these types, especially since I used to be among them. :facepalm:

    Yes, this is a serious issue with people like Marshall.  I have a bigger problem with that than his former Opus Dei connections.  In addition to the $20K/month from Patreon, he's got his books and speaking tours, not to mention that he organizes these events and pilgrimages that amount to paid vacations for his entire family, paid for by the participants.  And his Patreon channel generally consists of his getting online anc BSing about some topic for an average of 20-30 minutes per day.  He's not particularly qualified to be opining about Catholic theology ... but these lay apologists and commentators get wealthy from filling a gap or void left by the Conciliar priests who have largely gone MIA or who, when they do undertake such work, invariably spew heresy.  You'll notice also that most of those who take on this type of "work" are converts from Protestantism who consider themselves qualified to teach lifelong Catholics about the faith, many of whom were basically Protestant ministers in their day, and decided to simply introduce a Catholic equivalent of a Prot minister, undertaking work that should be done by qualified and approved priests.  It takes a special kind of arrogance to decide, fresh off the boat, as it were, into the Church, that you'll suddenly start teaching people and posturing as some kind of authority.

    But even more than just making (significant) money from these "apostolates," they're not going to be objective ... and they're compromised by the fact that they simply cannot alienate a large percentage of their audience by adopting any controlversial positions on subjects.  We've already listed some of the refreshing counter examples, such as Gerry Matatics and Patrick Coffin.  This is why a Taylor Marshall would NEVER consider sedevacantism, or even Bennyvacantism.  He'd lose half his audience at least and would have to go find a real job ... probably bagging groceries.

    Priests give up everything to serve God, spend years learning Catholic / scholastic theology, philosophy, apologetics, spirituality ... and it is they who should be serving God in this capacity, and the revenues brought in from these endeavors should end up supporting the Church and various Catholic charitable organizations.  Instead you have these Prot ministers coming over with their Prot theology "degrees" or others with their theology degrees from "Catholic" universities that might as well have come from a Cracker Jack box.  I knew one guy who was just short of a Masters in Theology at Loyola University who literally had never heard of St. Thomas Aquinas.  That is no hyperbole.  I was citing something from St. Thomas, and he asked, "Who's that?"  There weren't enough facepalms in existence for that one.  It's even worse on EWTN where you have lay women spouting off about theology and giving advice to people, like that obnoxious Johnette.  Here you have this heavily-made-up-with-low-cut-dress-double-last-named-feminist-sounding woman (currently) teaching people about contemplation, as per St. John of the Cross https://www.ewtn.com/tv/shows/women-of-grace :facepalm:  We need to hear from her about "contemplation" rather than from some priest or religious who has been practicing meditation (and even contemplation) for years and even decades.  In fact, I'll put money on it that Johnette can't even define what contemplation is (vs., say, meditation).  Contemplation is a state that few souls actually reach, even in the religious state (they should in fact be teaching people about medication, though of course they're not qualified to do that either).

    If I ever had a channel like that, any revenue in excess of what it would take to support the endeavor would go to charity, while I kept my actual day job ... since I would never feel right profitting off of spreading the Catholic faith.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #43 on: January 10, 2023, 06:44:03 AM »
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  • Absolutely agree.

    People ofte misconstrue my comments about Archbishop Lefebvre having changed his positions / attitudes over the years as a criticism ... but it's not.  Quite the contrary.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Where Are the Bennyvacantists?
    « Reply #44 on: January 10, 2023, 05:31:20 PM »
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  • Wow, this is deranged. And the whole article is like this. ::)

    It's fine.



    They really need better script writers.  This is melodramatic trash.  At least make it believable.

    I can only write the scripts "they" provide.  Opus Dei doesn't pay for overtime.

    # # #

    Where Are the Bennyvacantists?

    The following is from my comments section:

    Jeremiah Alphonsus says:December 31, 2022 at 7:19 pm Edit
    You really need to get really real, stop reading the hysterical and deluded Ann Barnhardt, and start reading really real sites like the superb Novus Ordo Watch and WM Review. For example, see today’s post on Ratzinger (“Benedict XVI”) over at Novus Ordo Watch.

    Neither Francis nor Benedict are/were ever actual popes, since actual popes must be actually Catholic. Yet both were devotees not of actual Catholicism, but of Modernism, condemned by actual Pope St. Pius X in his epic Pascendi encyclical as “the synthesis of all heresies.” Both are/were instrumental in the furtherance of the Council of Modernism, the Judas Council, the Second Vatican Council. Benedict was “conservative” only in the sense that he led his followers into the abyss of 100 mph rather than 1,000 mph.

    LH says:December 31, 2022 at 8:22 pm Edit
    Today, the Bennyplenists and the Sedes are roughly in the same situation. Rather than resurrecting previous and/or ongoing disagreements, I would say this is an opportunity to build bridges, mend wounds, and build upon strengths. There is a lot of room for growth, here. New growth in a new way not afforded to us in these past years.

    Jeremiah Alphonsus says:December 31, 2022 at 11:50 pm Edit
    I hear you and salute you. I know you’re a real lover of truth and therefore don’t prize comfort over truth.

    I submit that we all remain in exactly, not roughly, the same situation. The difference is whether we see and accept this continuing reality, the reality spitting in our faces daily.

    This is an opportunity, indeed the key opportunity, for “Bennyplenists” to finally accept reality. Sedevacantists are simply Catholics who refuse to bury their heads in the sand about this reality, the reality of the Great Apostasy being upon us, with Francis as the precursor of the Antichrist, the diabolical ape of John the Baptist.

    The Novus Ordo Antichurch, now led by Antipope Francis, has manifestly been overcome by hell. It’s defected from the Faith, as Francis and his fellow robed heretics prove daily. But since we’re divinely assured that the actual Catholic Church cannot be overcome by hell, that it’s indefectible, the entity now led by Francis cannot possibly be the actual Catholic Church, which is now in the catacombs once again.

    Sedevacantists don’t have all the answers, and they don’t claim to. All they claim is an accurate diagnosis of objective reality. A doctor isn’t wrong if he correctly diagnosis cancer but doesn’t have a cure. Likewise, the cancer doesn’t disappear if we deny the diagnosis. Sedes simply refuse to participate in today’s all-pervasive war against reality and thus against God, the author of reality.

    Why do we now have tranny freaks reading to our children in libraries? Why etc etc etc? Because of the war against God, and thus against reality, which went nuclear at the Judas Council (Vatican II). This is the proximate cause from which all of today’s madness radiates. The remote cause is of course the ongoing activity of Satan in this world.

    “Bennyplenists,” if they have any real humility, are now radically reevaluating their position and taking sedevacantism seriously. Hence, for example, they’re now going to Novus Ordo Watch and reading post like these:

    Anything but Sedevacantism! Analysis of a Curious Phenomenon

    and

    “Rethinking” the Papacy? A New Narrative for the Semi-Trads

    And they’ll now start seriously listening to the Tradcasts there as well (or, e.g., via Apple Podcasts)

    Over at WM Review, they’ll be reading articles like these:

    A Note for Confused Catholics – Apologetics and Dogmatic Theology

    and

    It’s not a sin to be depressed: Here’s what Aquinas and Neri have to say

    And they’ll I have a renewed interest in quotes such as the following. Behold:

    “Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist; the Church will be in eclipse.”

    -Our Lady of La Sallette

    “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.”

    -Galatians 1:8-9

    “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

    -Ephesians 5:11

    “Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?”

    -2 Cor. 6:14-16

    “Where there is no hatred of heresy, there is no holiness.“

    -Fr. Frederick Faber

    “The declared enemies of God and His Church, heretics and schismatics, must be criticized as much as possible, as long as truth is not denied. It is a work of charity to shout: ‘Here is the wolf!’ when it enters the flock or anywhere else.”

    -St. Francis de Sales

    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle