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Author Topic: What event had the most negative effect on the Church?  (Read 2604 times)

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Offline alaric

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What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
« on: June 03, 2012, 08:30:10 PM »
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  • Choose from the list below on which event negatively effected the RC Church the most throughout it's  two thousand year history and give a reason why.

    Or you can add your own, but again, explain why.

    1. The Arian Heresy.

    2. The birth of Mohamed.

    3. The Great Schism of 1054.

    4. The Crusades.

    5. The Renaissance.

    6. The fall of Constantinople to the Muslims Ottoman Turks in 1453.

    7. Martin Luther nailing his 95 theses to the Church door at Wittenburg.

    8. The French Revolution.

    9.The October revolution in Russia in 1917

    10..Vatican II ( 1962-65) and all it's liberal interpretations.










    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 09:04:35 PM »
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  • I would have to say #10 (Vatican II). Then I'd say the French Revolution would be a close second.

    Just my opinion, though.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Sede Catholic

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 10:53:18 PM »
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  • Vatican II.

    And by a very long way.

    Some of the other things on the list were attempts to destroy the Catholic Church.

    However, Vatican II was an attempt that (in appearances, at least) has nearly succeeded,

    but we know from Our Lord's own words that the Church will never be destroyed.
    Francis is an Antipope. Pray that God will grant us a good Pope and save the Church.
    I abjure and retract my schismatic support of the evil CMRI.Thuc condemned the Thuc nonbishops
    "Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff"-Pope Boniface VIII.
    If you think Francis is Pope,do you treat him like an Antipope?
    Pastor Aeternus, and the Council of Trent Sessions XXIII and XXIV

    Offline brainglitch

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 11:46:44 PM »
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  • I'd go with 7, 3, 8, 10, 2, 9, 1, 6, 5 in that order.

    Not sure why you put the Crusades on that list.

    I won't go through the reasons for all of them, but Luther was definitely the worst, by far. He got the ball rolling on private interpretation, and the supremacy of the individual conscience over objective truth.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 11:57:48 PM »
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  • My order is as follows, starting with the worst:

    10 (Vatican II)
    8 (French Revolution)
    3 (Great Schism)
    7 (Luther and the Protestant Reformation)
    1 (Arian Heresy)
    2 (Birth of Mohamed)
    9 (October Revolution in Russia in 1917)
    6 (Fall of Constantinople)
    5 (Renaissance)
    4 (Crusades)

    Vatican II was the worst because is the most destructive inner blow to the Church. The Reformation and French Revolution were both attacks from the outside.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Marcelino

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 12:19:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: alaric
    Choose from the list below on which event negatively effected the RC Church the most throughout it's  two thousand year history and give a reason why.

    Or you can add your own, but again, explain why.

    1. The Arian Heresy.

    2. The birth of Mohamed.

    3. The Great Schism of 1054.

    4. The Crusades.

    5. The Renaissance.

    6. The fall of Constantinople to the Muslims Ottoman Turks in 1453.

    7. Martin Luther nailing his 95 theses to the Church door at Wittenburg.

    8. The French Revolution.

    9.The October revolution in Russia in 1917

    10..Vatican II ( 1962-65) and all it's liberal interpretations.










    Where's fascism's oppression of catholics?   :jester:


    Offline Ethelred

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 02:13:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: alaric
    Choose from the list below on which event negatively effected the RC Church the most throughout it's  two thousand year history and give a reason why.


    For the almost-destruction of the Church, I believe the key event is Luther in 1517.

    He liberalised i.e. cut man from God's Church. Once emancipated, man liberalised i.e. cut himself from God. Maybe we can say 1517 was the birth of the official liberalism?


    Well, Luther didn't came out of nowhere. The failure and weakness of us catholics enabled him. Still he's been the tin opener for European liberalism, and hence for more, like :

    - 1534, former Defensor Fidei (Defender of the Faith) Henry VIII deforms the catholic United Kingdom to the Lutheran sect named "Anglican Church", which also provides the basis for the protestantism of the subsequent USA.

    - 1789, French Revolution, the zenith of the European liberalism (liberté blah-blah). It  starts the deformation of most of continental Europe to an anti-christian continent, going on until today.

    - 1914, the liberalised and hence fatal weakened Europe is drawn into World War I. It crushes Central Europe's Christian empire Austria-Hungary, the Church's protecting power (*). It also crushes the Russian empire, which is schismatic but Christian in some aspect, and once this obstacle is removed, Lenin can drive forth the Scourge of God aka  the Jєωιѕн Communism, see Fatima. (Trotsky brings the international communism to USA...)

    - 1965, V2 the Lutheran-ising of the now unprotected Church. Archbishop Lefebvre called it the (spiritual) World War III.

    - 2012, Possible fall of one of the last and largest bastions of resistance, the SSPX

    - 2013? Chastisement & Reconquista!



    (*) For example the Austrian Emperor in 1904 vetoes against the liberal Cardinal Rampola to become pope, which gives us one last blessed pontificate: Sanct Pius X. Ironically the very humble pope didn't like this veto.
    It's a sign of our times that in 500 years there's only two saint popes: Pius V and Pius X.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 06:46:14 AM »
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  • The "Pontificate of "Paul 6""

    He did more harm to the Church than all her open enemies combined.  Not the least of which was cutting of the ordinary means of obtaining sanctifying grace through valid Sacraments offered by valid Priests and Bishops.

    The Masons were getting it done anyway, but it was all consumated in him.  The rest, like watering down the exorcism rite, inventing a new rosary, new heretical canon law, new stations, approval of a consecration with no consecration formula was just kicking a dead horse.

    The Judas par excellance.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Sunbeam

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 09:32:39 AM »
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  • Ethelred said:
    Quote
    1534, former Defensor Fidei (Defender of the Faith) Henry VIII deforms the catholic United Kingdom to the Lutheran sect named "Anglican Church", which also provides the basis for the protestantism of the subsequent USA.

    Correction:
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain was founded in 1707. Henry VIII had nothing to do with the event.

    Offline Ethelred

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 11:23:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sunbeam
    Ethelred said:
    Quote
    1534, former Defensor Fidei (Defender of the Faith) Henry VIII deforms the catholic United Kingdom England to the Lutheran sect named "Anglican Church", which also provides the basis for the protestantism of the subsequent USA.

    Correction:
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain was founded in 1707. Henry VIII had nothing to do with the event.

    Thanks. England then. :-)  I corrected it in the quotation.

    Offline Malleus 01

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 02:46:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: alaric
    Choose from the list below on which event negatively effected the RC Church the most throughout it's  two thousand year history and give a reason why.

    Or you can add your own, but again, explain why.

    1. The Arian Heresy.

    2. The birth of Mohamed.

    3. The Great Schism of 1054.

    4. The Crusades.

    5. The Renaissance.

    6. The fall of Constantinople to the Muslims Ottoman Turks in 1453.

    7. Martin Luther nailing his 95 theses to the Church door at Wittenburg.

    8. The French Revolution.

    9.The October revolution in Russia in 1917

    10..Vatican II ( 1962-65) and all it's liberal interpretations.










    The French Revolution and then eventually Vatican II because it is a culmination of Progressivism and the result of infiltration of the Church By the Modernists - Ultimately Vatican II is a result of the French Revolution which spawned Free Masonry , Modernist Philosophy - like "Hegelianism" which led to Communism and the Theory of Evolution and Widespread Atheism.


    Offline Caraffa

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 05:33:10 PM »
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  • The Renaissance because it sets #7-10 in motion. Without it there would have been no Reformation or Enlightenment and 1789.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline alaric

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 06:03:43 PM »
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  • In case anyone was wondering My list is in chronological order, not necessarily from worst to first or vice versa.

    Offline alaric

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 06:06:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sede Catholic
    Vatican II.

    And by a very long way.

    Some of the other things on the list were attempts to destroy the Catholic Church.

    However, Vatican II was an attempt that (in appearances, at least) has nearly succeeded,

    but we know from Our Lord's own words that the Church will never be destroyed.
    I would almost agree with that to some extent, but I do believe that without the age of "enlightenment", the French or October Revolution, there is no VII. IMO anyway.

    Offline alaric

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    What event had the most negative effect on the Church?
    « Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 06:14:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: brainglitch
    I'd go with 7, 3, 8, 10, 2, 9, 1, 6, 5 in that order.

    Not sure why you put the Crusades on that list.

    I won't go through the reasons for all of them, but Luther was definitely the worst, by far. He got the ball rolling on private interpretation, and the supremacy of the individual conscience over objective truth.
    Well, a few things went wrong during the Crusades IMO that really hurt the Western Church, including a sack of Constantinople  by the Crusaders I believe that left a real sour taste with the Byzantine Church and any hope of reunification with Rome any time soon after that.

    Also, the way the Templars were sold out by the pope was not good for the Vatican in the long run with all kinds of theories where the surviving knights left their legacy, including Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. But that's another discussion.