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Offline Lover of Truth

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What Does the Church Teach About Divine Providence?
« on: October 16, 2012, 12:31:54 PM »
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  • My belief is as follows:

    God knows what we are going to do before we do it, and we have free-will.

    We are predestined to our final destination but we freely choose to go where we end up.  Each of us, no matter where our destination lies, has been given the capability of being saved and a fair chance.  

    Calvin had a fatalistic look at predestination to the exclusion of free-will.

    God knows what we are going to do before we do it from now until the moment on death and where that will lead, be we do not.  His knowing this is based upon giving us free-will and the capacity to be saved if we were to ultimately make the right choices.  He knew when He created us that we would be able to be saved if we made the correct choices we were capable of making but did not make.  Just because He knew we would ultimately shun His grace is not the same as saying we had free-will and the capacity to be saved.  

    Catholics have a "both and" view of thing rather than the embracing of one truth to the exclusion of the other as is seen in EENS/BOB-D.  We believe in predestination AND free-will.  God can't help knowing how we will use that free-will ahead of time.  

    There is a certain mystery to it that we must bow too, for if we knew as much as God or understood things as clearly as God does then He wouldn't be God or there would be more than one God, Him and those who know as much as He does.  

    This is true with "faith and works" as well.  We do not pit one against the other, they fit together.  

    Any thoughts?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Online Stubborn

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    What Does the Church Teach About Divine Providence?
    « Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 10:04:15 AM »
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  • From: Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence

    Nothing happens in the universe without God willing and allowing it. This statement must he taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin. 'Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives' is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, 'and God intervenes everywhere.'




    From: The New Catholic Dictionary

    Providence
    (Latin: providere, to foresee, provide)

    Adapting means to an end, God in His Wisdom ordering every event so that the purpose of creation may be realized, and, in particular providing for every human being the means of working out his destiny and of serving and glorifying his Creator, Ruler, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. Saint John Damascene calls it: "The will of God by which all things are ruled by right reason." It leaves no room for chance or for fate. It is the personal act of God in regard to man. It is the expression of His relation to us as Father. "For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things." (Matthew 6) It is our reason and motive for prayer, as taught by Christ in the "Our Father." It is God's hand leading us on, invisible especially in moments of trial and darkness, but visible, as Cardinal Newman says in Parochial Sermons I, when we can look back and account for the happenings that have influenced our lives and enabled us to go on in God's service. In volume V he says it is nearly the only doctrine held with real assent [approval] by the mass of religious Englishmen, which seems to be true generally of Christians who are not members of the Church Christ founded.


    From: The Book of St. Matthew, Chapter 7

    7 *Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.
    8 * For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.
    9 *Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?
    10 Or if he shall ask a fish, will he reach him a serpent?
    11 If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father, who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?


    Ver. 7 After having preached these great and wonderful truths, after having commanded his apostles to keep themselves free from the vices of mankind, and make themselves like not to angels or archangels only, but to the Lord of all things; and not only observe justice themselves, but likewise to labour for the correction of others, lest they should be disheartened at these almost insurmountable difficulties: our Redeemer subjoins, Ask, and you shall receive, &c. When we offer our petitions to the Almighty, we must imitate the example of Solomon, who immediately obtained what he asked of the Lord, because he asked what he ought. Two things, therefore, are necessary to every prayer, that it be offered up with perseverance and fervour, and that it contain a lawful prayer. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xxiv.) --- The reasons why so many do not obtain the effects of their prayers, are,---1st. Because they ask for what is evil; and he that makes such a request, offers the Almighty an intolerable injury by wishing to make him, as it were, the author of evil: 2nd. Although what they ask be not evil, they seek it for an evil end. (St. James iv.): 3rd. Because they who pray, are themselves wicked; (St. John ix.) for God doth not hear sinners: 4th. Because they ask with no faith, or with faith weak and wavering: (St. James i.) 5th. Because although what we ask be good in itself, yet the Almighty refuses it, in order to grant us a greater good: 6th. Because God wishes us to persevere, as he declares in the parable of the friend asking bread, Luke, ch. ii.; and that we may esteem his gifts the more: 7th. We do not always receive what we beg, because, according to St. Augustine, (lib. ii, de Serm. Dom. et epis. 34, ad Paulinum) God often does not grant us what we petition for, that he may grant us something more useful and profitable. (Maldonatus)
    Ver. 8. Whatever we ask necessary to salvation with humility, fervour, perseverance, and other due circumstances, we may be assured God will grant when it is best for us. If we do not obtain what we pray for, we must suppose it is not conducive to our salvation, in comparison of which all else is of little moment. (Haydock)
    Ver. 9. Lest any one considering the great inequality between God and man, should despair of obtaining favours of God, and therefore should not dare to offer up his petitions, he immediately introduces this similitude of the Father; so that if we were on the point of despairing on account of our sins, from his fatherly tenderness we might still have hopes. (St. Thomas Aquinas)
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    What Does the Church Teach About Divine Providence?
    « Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 02:16:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    From: Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence

    Nothing happens in the universe without God willing and allowing it. This statement must he taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin. 'Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives' is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, 'and God intervenes everywhere.'




    From: The New Catholic Dictionary

    Providence
    (Latin: providere, to foresee, provide)

    Adapting means to an end, God in His Wisdom ordering every event so that the purpose of creation may be realized, and, in particular providing for every human being the means of working out his destiny and of serving and glorifying his Creator, Ruler, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. Saint John Damascene calls it: "The will of God by which all things are ruled by right reason." It leaves no room for chance or for fate. It is the personal act of God in regard to man. It is the expression of His relation to us as Father. "For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things." (Matthew 6) It is our reason and motive for prayer, as taught by Christ in the "Our Father." It is God's hand leading us on, invisible especially in moments of trial and darkness, but visible, as Cardinal Newman says in Parochial Sermons I, when we can look back and account for the happenings that have influenced our lives and enabled us to go on in God's service. In volume V he says it is nearly the only doctrine held with real assent [approval] by the mass of religious Englishmen, which seems to be true generally of Christians who are not members of the Church Christ founded.


    From: The Book of St. Matthew, Chapter 7

    7 *Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.
    8 * For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.
    9 *Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?
    10 Or if he shall ask a fish, will he reach him a serpent?
    11 If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father, who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?


    Ver. 7 After having preached these great and wonderful truths, after having commanded his apostles to keep themselves free from the vices of mankind, and make themselves like not to angels or archangels only, but to the Lord of all things; and not only observe justice themselves, but likewise to labour for the correction of others, lest they should be disheartened at these almost insurmountable difficulties: our Redeemer subjoins, Ask, and you shall receive, &c. When we offer our petitions to the Almighty, we must imitate the example of Solomon, who immediately obtained what he asked of the Lord, because he asked what he ought. Two things, therefore, are necessary to every prayer, that it be offered up with perseverance and fervour, and that it contain a lawful prayer. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xxiv.) --- The reasons why so many do not obtain the effects of their prayers, are,---1st. Because they ask for what is evil; and he that makes such a request, offers the Almighty an intolerable injury by wishing to make him, as it were, the author of evil: 2nd. Although what they ask be not evil, they seek it for an evil end. (St. James iv.): 3rd. Because they who pray, are themselves wicked; (St. John ix.) for God doth not hear sinners: 4th. Because they ask with no faith, or with faith weak and wavering: (St. James i.) 5th. Because although what we ask be good in itself, yet the Almighty refuses it, in order to grant us a greater good: 6th. Because God wishes us to persevere, as he declares in the parable of the friend asking bread, Luke, ch. ii.; and that we may esteem his gifts the more: 7th. We do not always receive what we beg, because, according to St. Augustine, (lib. ii, de Serm. Dom. et epis. 34, ad Paulinum) God often does not grant us what we petition for, that he may grant us something more useful and profitable. (Maldonatus)
    Ver. 8. Whatever we ask necessary to salvation with humility, fervour, perseverance, and other due circumstances, we may be assured God will grant when it is best for us. If we do not obtain what we pray for, we must suppose it is not conducive to our salvation, in comparison of which all else is of little moment. (Haydock)
    Ver. 9. Lest any one considering the great inequality between God and man, should despair of obtaining favours of God, and therefore should not dare to offer up his petitions, he immediately introduces this similitude of the Father; so that if we were on the point of despairing on account of our sins, from his fatherly tenderness we might still have hopes. (St. Thomas Aquinas)


    Thanks for this.

    God has a positive will and a permissive will.  Did I word that right?  He causes many things and allows others that He does not positively want.

    He permits or allows sin but does not cause it.  Am I right?

    He also brings good out of evil.  This fact might help when we go through tough times, there is a reason for it (supposing you are destined for Heaven), and it is for your good (purification or so you can avoid something even worse happening), not His.  He is such a loving and merciful God.  

    Say you get delayed from going home on time, through some strange and seemingly unnecessary reason and as a result you spend an extra hour in traffic.  Doesn't seem fair.  But perhaps had you left on time you would have been in an accident and suffered a paralyzing accident or died (went to Hell).  

    There are reasons why things happen, good reasons if we are doing His will.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

     

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