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Author Topic: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?  (Read 5315 times)

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Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2021, 02:07:27 PM »
It's the ol' "had my fingers crossed behind my back" routine eh?
My marriage of 25 years was declared null for such frivolous reasons.

Bp. Williamson once lectured that if a couple could not find a priest after 30 days, the Church provides (Canon Law) that the couple can marry themselves, before the Eyes of God, with lay witnesses.

If this is the case, it would appear null marriages would be only a newChurch political label.

Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2021, 03:24:03 PM »
Thanks for posting Bp. Tissier's letter.


It shows he was once an "ultramontane" Resistance Catholic.

I used to love to hear him refer to the Novus ordo's "bastard sacraments".

And repeated it to myself often.


Another take-away from the letter was how diabolically cunning Paul VI, the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Jєω-pope was.

  
                                                       Wearing the rabbinic ephod





Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2021, 03:38:07 PM »
I don't know exactly what +Williamson has to say, but I do know that in the past, both he and +Lefebvre said the NO ordination of at least one priest, Fr. Hesse, was valid.
One must keep in mind that Fr Hesse was ordained by a bishop who was consecrated in the Old Rite.  The bigger issue has always been the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration.

Now that practically all Novus Ordo priests have been ordained by Novus Ordo bishops consecrated in the New Rite, I think one would need to look at whether Bishop Williamson conditionally ordains these priests when they come to the Resistance.  I'm fairly certain that any NO priest that goes sedevacantist must be conditionally ordained without exception.  This may also be the case in the Resistance.  

Offline Meg

Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2021, 05:31:39 PM »
I don't know exactly what +Williamson has to say, but I do know that in the past, both he and +Lefebvre said the NO ordination of at least one priest, Fr. Hesse, was valid.

In one of his talks posted on YouTube, Fr. Hesse is quoted as saying: "...I have been ordained, unfortunately in the New Rite of Ordination, but thank God in Latin, everything strictly by the book and +ABL said that would be valid, +Fellay said it's valid and Fr. Franz Schmidberger who is my present superior in Austria says it's valid and +Williamson said there's no need for conditional ordination...."

In previous discussion on the matter, I called the SSPX and posted what the man told me here.


Read Chapter 15 in Who Shall Ascend? (also attached below) where Fr. Wathen touches on the subject, here is a snip....

"...It is not our purpose in these pages to decide whether the new ordination rite is invalid, though, as we shall see, the argument is substantial enough that we are bound to allow for this possibility. Furthermore, we must see the issue in the context of the total redefinition and reconstitution of the Church, such as was set in motion at the Council. In view of the fact that, since the Council, the priest's role has been in the process of being modified, as we said, to that of a Protestant presbyter, there is every reason to deduce that the new ordination rite sabotages the Sacrament of Holy Orders according to
the explicit program and purposes of those now in power. (The reader is reminded that the very doubt which this change creates serves the malevolent purposes of the conspirators as well as does the certitude of invalidity, because from the doubt flows controversy, disagreements, factions, confusion, and disquietude among the clergy and the faithful.)..."

Very good information above. I agree with the highlighted text above from Fr. Wathen, in that he states that the doubt which the change creates serves the purposes of the malevolent conspirators (who are the Modernists, I take it), but that the certitude of invalidity also causes controversy, disagreements, factions, confusion, disquietude among the clergy and faithful.

Sedevacantists, IMO, in particular tend to view the new sacraments as invalid, since they are no strangers to controversy. But it's not only Sedes of course who say that the New Rite is invalid.

If I recall correctly, Fr. Hesse maintained that the New Rite of Consecration is valid, and he gave the reasons for this stance in one of his talks, which I cannot now find with an internet search. But his reasoning made sense. Of course, the New Rite of consecration may not be administered properly, due to the essential role of the priest being changed of course, as has been explained already. +ABL did not always re-ordain the priests who defected from the Novus Ordo to the SSPX. Therefore, it stands to reason that it isn't the words of consecration that are the problem, but rather how it is administered, or if the words are changed.

Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 07:56:57 AM »
In all of this mess of the past 50+ years, one thing that troubles me and won't go away, is whether the orders of priest and bishop in the Novus Ordo are valid, whether in the Latin editio typica, or in the vernacular.  Needless to say, this matters.

You do realize that it is impossible for Holy Mother Church to approve invalid rites?  I do not pretend to know your take on the crisis as a whole, but ANY sedeplenist who doubts the validity of any of the NO Sacraments is grossly illogical and lying to himself about the real nature of his assessment of the V2 anti-Church.

The very fact that the issue is still being discussed after FIFTY years ought to tell you what people really think in their heart of hearts.

As for Fr. Hesse's take on his own situation, why would his testimony be admissible?  He has (had) a notably vested interest and his opinion is irrelevant.