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Author Topic: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?  (Read 5128 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2021, 10:05:43 AM »
Removal of the "ut" is incredibly significant and there was no other reason to do it other than with the malicious intent to invalidate the Sacrament.

Arianism turned on even less.  

OF COURSE the removal of "ut" in this instance was essential and intentional.

Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2021, 10:29:36 AM »
Xavier
Any assessments that the current rite comes from the West Syriac churches or Coptic is pure BS, having attended ordinations in both there's no comparison. The argument iys false. There may be parallels with original copies of Greek ordinations, which could mean the ordinations are valid, but there's a large corpus of discussion of how ordinations are done within the Latin Church, but no discussion about making up ordinations from scratch and appealing to something done in another church as if it had some part in why it was composed.
There are two arguments in favor
1 The ordination rite was given by 'the church' and the church would fail without priests
Or
2 Throw it into the category of the doctrine of unity
Quote
Wherever the bishop appears let the congregation be present; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful either to baptise or to hold an "agape" without the bishop; but whatever he approve, this is also pleasing to God, that everything which you do may be secure and valid.1


#2 still doesn't answer the question




Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2021, 10:31:15 AM »
For that matter#1 doesn't either

Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2021, 10:34:48 AM »
Reason has a role in examining and investigating what has gone wrong in the last 50 years. But Faith is a greater light than reason, and the truths of Faith are more certain than the judgments of reason. If an apparent judgment of reason contradicts a certain truth of Faith, it is the former that is mistaken, not the latter. We will disagree, I suppose, till we have a holy Pope who will settle it.

Our Lady in Quito, Who prophesied these times, spoke of the "Prelate who will restore the spirit of Her Priests", a statement which in its plain sense itself suggests the Priests are not invalid, but have lost their spirit; which, in due time, will be restored by the Holy Pope.

Of course reason has a role and a substantial one at that.  Sedeplenists have all-but-neutered that role, acting as if we must all deny the obvious until the order of law catches up to the order of fact (a lag which is constant, normal and unavoidable due to the way reality works and the way fact and law are related).

Our Lady of Good Success, to whom you refer, could just as easily be taken to be referring to however many real priests exist at the time of resurgence.  Such a group need not necessarily include those of the NO variety. Frankly, many presumably-valid priests in Traddieland could benefit from a massive restoration of spirit, so to speak.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: What does Bishop Williamson say about the validity of Novus Ordo orders?
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2021, 10:50:15 AM »
Our Lady in Quito, Who prophesied these times, spoke of the "Prelate who will restore the spirit of Her Priests", a statement which in its plain sense itself suggests the Priests are not invalid, but have lost their spirit; which, in due time, will be restored by the Holy Pope.

I read an article recently which ruled out +Lefebvre as the "prelate" prophesied by Our Lady at Quito ... since he didn't meet some of the prophesied requirements to be said prelate.