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Poll

The New Mass is ...

Certainly Invalid
2 (6.9%)
Positively Doubtful
9 (31%)
Valid but Heretical
1 (3.4%)
Valid but Lacks Grace
2 (6.9%)
Valid but Inferior
9 (31%)
Other (Please explain)
6 (20.7%)
None of the above
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Author Topic: What do you believe about the New Mass?  (Read 2017 times)

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Re: What do you believe about the New Mass?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2020, 12:11:55 PM »
I'm guessing Struthio received a "thumbs down" because he posted an uncomfortable truth and many people simply cannot abide such truths.  The G.I.R.M. was condemned at Trent hundreds of years before its publication and those who accept it have already been anathemtized.

Offline Yeti

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Re: What do you believe about the New Mass?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2020, 02:05:44 PM »
Here is an interesting and very Catholic commentary on the idea of using the vernacular in the Mass, from one of my favorite books on the Mass, The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by Fr. Nicholas Gihr, written in 1902:
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The very ancient practice of the Church of celebrating Mass in the West, not in the living language of the country, but in a dead language, that is, in Latin, for the most part a language unintelligible to the people, has since the twelfth century to the present epoch been frequently made the subject of attack. [footnote, which says: Opponents of the Latin language of worship were, as a rule, heretics, schismatics and rationalistic Catholics; for example, the Albigensians, the so-called Reformers, the Jansenists, the Gallicans, the Josephites, the so-called German and the Old Catholics.] Such attacks originated principally in an heretical, schismatical, proudly national spirit hostile to the Church, or in a superficial and false enlightenment, in a shallow and arid rationalism entirely destitute of the perception and understanding of the essence and object of the Catholic liturgy, especially of the profoundly mystical sacrifice. In the attempt to suppress the Latin language of the liturgy and to replace it by the vernacular, there was a more or less premeditated scheme to undermine the Catholic unity, to loosen the bond of union with Rome, to weaken the Catholic spirit, to destroy the humility and simplicity of faith. Therefore, the Apostolic See at all times most persistently and inflexibly resisted such innovations; for it is an invariable principle of the Church never to alter the ancient liturgical language, but inviolably to adhere to it, even though it be no longer the living language spoken or understood by the people.

EDIT: typo


Re: What do you believe about the New Mass?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2020, 02:21:25 PM »
Simple Question. Discussion Later.
What do you, Xavier, think? Do you think the answer to your question is simple?

Re: What do you believe about the New Mass?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2020, 03:02:48 PM »
I'm guessing Struthio received a "thumbs down" because he posted an uncomfortable truth and many people simply cannot abide such truths.  The G.I.R.M. was condemned at Trent hundreds of years before its publication and those who accept it have already been anathemtized.
I didn't downvote him, but he's wrong. Look at the quote again:

Quote
Session 22 of the Council of Trent, Canon 9: If anyone says that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vernacular tongue only; or that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice because it is contrary to the institution of Christ, let him be anathema.
One is anathematised if they teach that the Tridentine Rite ought to have been condemned for the pronunciation of words in a low tone, or if they teach that it's wrong to say the Mass in Latin.

The Novus Ordo not using a low tone is NOT a condemnation of the Tridentine Rite for using one, nor is the Novus Ordo being generally celebrated in the vernacular a condemnation of saying the Mass in Latin. Indeed, Novus Ordo Latin Masses do exist.

Online Stubborn

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Re: What do you believe about the New Mass?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2020, 03:13:41 PM »
"....Almost all discussion, sparse as it has been in view of the seriousness of the subject, has centered around either the legality of this Act or the validity of the Consecration of the wine, due to the obvious mistranslation of the Consecration Form. I am forced to say, however, that their discussion has taken too much attention from the larger and more obvious question, namely, how the “New Mass” contradicts the will of God...."

...It will be observed, I am not attempting here to judge whether the consecration of the “New Mass” is valid. Let us hope not, that it might be somewhat less sacrilegious. I presume all are aware that even should Transubstantiation take place, the “New Mass” would not for that reason be a worthy sacrifice, only a more terrible offense to the majesty and magnificence of God.

In the True Mass, the act of Transubstantiation provides the Sacrifice with its Victim and its Offerer, Who, in the rites which follow, yields Himself up to the Father in adoration and atonement, and then hands Himself over to such poor and needy souls as we to be their Food; in the “New Mass” Christ may or may not be present, while those whom He loves, despite all, gather round to celebrate their own penurious communalism and to take full advantage of His (temporary) tolerance of this Outrage...." - The Great Sacrilege