Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?  (Read 15623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gobosox91

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Reputation: +11/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Just curious. I hear some traditionalists object due to the whole communion in hand thing, but I've heard some accept it. Well, can I get some votes? Yay or nay? I'm in a lotta despair and could use the divine mercy...


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 07:33:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sister Faustina seemed kooky to me. Whenever you have someone that has impure images and who spends her time in confessionals rambling to priests about her visions, that waves a red flag.

    Divine Mercy is just another Novus Ordo invention.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Caraffa

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 989
    • Reputation: +558/-47
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 07:43:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sacred Heart >> Divine Mercy.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline Kelley

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 209
    • Reputation: +659/-7
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 08:08:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Angelus
    June 2010

    Questions and Answers
    by Fr. Peter R. Scott


    What are we to think of the Divine Mercy devotion?

    Many people have certainly received graces from the devotion to Divine Mercy propagated by St. Faustina, and her personal piety was certainly most exemplary. However, this does not necessarily mean that this devotion is from God. It is true that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, that it was through his efforts that the prohibition was lifted on April 15, 1978, and that he even introduced a feast of Divine Mercy into the Novus Ordo. However, the fact that good and pious people receive graces and that Sister Faustina was pious do not necessarily means that it is from heaven. In fact, it was not only not approved before Vatican II. It was condemned, and this despite the fact that the prayers themselves of the chaplet of Divine Mercy are orthodox.

    Condemned by the Holy Office

    There were two decrees from Rome on this question, both of the time of Pope John XXIII. The Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, in a plenary meeting held on November 19, 1958, made the following decisions:

    The supernatural nature of the revelations made to Sister Faustina is not evident.

    No feast of Divine Mercy is to be instituted.

    It is forbidden to divulge images and writings that propagate this devotion under the form received by Sister Faustina.



    The second decree of the Holy Office was on March 6, 1959, in which the following was established:

    The diffusion of images and writings promoting the devotion to Divine Mercy under the form proposed by the same Sister Faustina was forbidden.

    The prudence of the bishops is to judge as to the removal of the aforesaid images that are already displayed for public honor.



    What was it about this devotion that prevented the Holy Office from acknowledging its divine origin? The decrees do not say, but it seems that the reason lies in the fact that there is so much emphasis on God’s mercy as to exclude His justice. Our sins and the gravity of the offense that they inflict on God is pushed aside as being of little consequence. That is why the aspect of reparation for sin is omitted or obscured.

    The true image of God’s mercy is the Sacred Heart of Jesus, pierced with a lance, crowned with thorns, dripping precious blood. The Sacred Heart calls for a devotion of reparation, as the popes have always requested. However, this is not the case with the Divine Mercy devotion. The image has no heart. It is a Sacred Heart without a heart, without reparation, without the price of our sins being clearly evident. It is this that makes the devotion very incomplete and makes us suspicious of its supernatural origin, regardless of Sister Faustina’s own good intentions and personal holiness. This absence of the need for reparation for sins is manifest in the strange promise of freedom from all the temporal punishment due to sin for those who observe the 3:00 p.m. Low Sunday devotions. How could such a devotion be more powerful and better than a plenary indulgence, applying the extraordinary treasury of the merits of the saints? How could it not require as a condition that we perform a penitential work of our own? How could it not require the detachment from even venial sin that is necessary to obtain a plenary indulgence?


    Presumption in the Writings of Sister Faustina

    The published Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalski (Marian Press, Stockbridge, MA, 2007) also indicates several reasons to seriously question the supernatural origin of the more than 640 pages of voluminous and repeated apparitions and messages. The characteristic of any true mystic who has received supernatural graces is always a profound humility, sense of unworthiness, awareness and profession of the gravity of his sins. Yet this humility is strangely lacking in Sister Faustina’s diary. On October 2, 1936, for example, she states that the “Lord Jesus” spoke these words to her: “Now I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love me, but because My will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (§707, p. 288). This gives every appearance of being a claim of being more united to Jesus than anybody else, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, and certainly more than all the other saints. What pride, to believe such an affirmation, let alone to assert that it came from heaven!

    In April 1938, Sister Faustina read the canonization of St. Andrew Bobola and was filled with longing and tears that her congregation might have its own saint. Then she affirms the following: “And the Lord Jesus said to me, Don’t cry. You are that saint.” (§1650, p. 583). These are words that most certainly no true saint would affirm, but rather his sinfulness and unworthiness of his congregation. This presumption in her writings is not isolated. She praises herself on several occasions through the words supposedly uttered by Jesus. Listen to this interior locution, for example: “Beloved pearl of My Heart, I see your love so pure, purer than that of the angels, and all the more so because you keep fighting. For your sake I bless the world.” (§1061, p. 400). On May 23, 1937 she describes a vision of the Holy Trinity, after which she heard a voice saying: “Tell the Superior General to count on you as the most faithful daughter in the Order” (§1130, p. 417). It is consequently hardly surprising that Sister Faustina claimed to be exempt from the Particular and General Judgments. On February 4, 1935, she already claimed to hear this voice in her soul: “From today on, do not fear God’s judgment, for you will not be judged” (§374, p. 168). Add to this the preposterous affirmation that the host three times over jumped out of the tabernacle and placed itself in her hands (§44, p. 23), so that she had to open up the tabernacle herself and place it back in there, tells the story of a presumption on God’s grace which goes beyond all reason, let alone as the action of a person supposedly favored with innumerable and repeated mystical and supernatural graces.

    It is perhaps not accidental that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, for it is very much in line with his encyclical Dives in Misericordia. In fact, the Paschal Mystery theology that he taught pushed aside all consideration of the gravity of sin and the need for penance, for satisfaction to divine justice, and hence of the Mass as being an expiatory sacrifice, and likewise the need to gain indulgences and to do works of penance. Since God is infinitely merciful and does not count our sins, all this is considered of no consequence. This is not the Catholic spirit. We must make reparation for our sins and for the sins of the whole world, as the Sacred Heart repeatedly asked at Paray-Le-Monial. It is the renewal of our consecration to the Sacred Heart and frequent holy hours of reparation that is going to bring about the conversion of sinners. It is in this way that we can cooperate in bringing about His Kingdom of Merciful Love, because it is the perfect recognition of the infinite holiness of the Divine Majesty and complete submission to His rightful demands. Mercy only means something when we understand the price of our Redemption.

    Fr. Peter Scott was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988.
    After assignments as seminary professor, US District Superior, and Rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Goulburn, Australia,
    he is presently Headmaster of Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy in Wilmot, Ontario, Canada.

    Offline theology101

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 327
    • Reputation: +109/-0
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #4 on: May 06, 2012, 09:25:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have prayed the divine mercy chaplet since I converted- I see nothing wrong with the prayer itself. I won't comment on Sr. Faustina's visions. But it does seem coincidental to me that Karol Wojtyla, a Pole, so promoted this image and chaplet of Sr. Kowalska, another Pole, not to mention declared St. Maximilian Kolbe, a Pole, a martyr, even though he was not killed in odium fidei. Maybe he's just giving a boost to his fellow countrymen? I will also say that Poland still has one of the largest, if not the largest, Jєωιѕн populations in Europe. Make of that what you will. It has been long known that Masons, Commies and Jєωs are all trying very hard to infiltrate the Church to destroy it from within. Jesus was right when he said, "A house divided against itself will not stand." Look at how divided the Church is since VII.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4671
    • Reputation: +2624/-10
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 09:29:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: gobosox91
    Just curious. I hear some traditionalists object due to the whole communion in hand thing, but I've heard some accept it. Well, can I get some votes? Yay or nay? I'm in a lotta despair and could use the divine mercy...


    I know you are asking about the Divine Mercy but why are you including "communion in the hand" of which, to my knowledge, no Traditional Catholic thinks well of.  

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 10:44:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Sister Faustina seemed kooky to me. Whenever you have someone that has impure images and who spends her time in confessionals rambling to priests about her visions, that waves a red flag.

    Divine Mercy is just another Novus Ordo invention.


    What impure images are you talking about?

    As for rambling to the priest, all the saints told about their visions to their spiritual confessor.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 10:46:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alex
    What impure images are you talking about?


    She claimed to have had visions of Christ being "unclad".

    Quote
    As for rambling to the priest, all the saints told about their visions to their spiritual confessor.


    Did they spend hours in the confessional rambling about it and ticking their priest off?
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 10:59:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Alex
    What impure images are you talking about?


    She claimed to have had visions of Christ being "unclad".

    Quote
    As for rambling to the priest, all the saints told about their visions to their spiritual confessor.


    Did they spend hours in the confessional rambling about it and ticking their priest off?


    Where do you get all this info from please.

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #9 on: May 06, 2012, 11:03:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Are you talking about this incident when she was 18 years old. When she was still a bit in the world and had not become a nun yet?

    Once I was at a dance [probably in Lodz] with one of my sisters. While everybody was having a good time, my soul was experiencing deep torments. As I began to dance.  I suddenly saw Jesus at my side, Jesus racked with pain, stripped of His clothing, all covered with wounds, who spoke these words to me: How long shall I put up with you and how long will you keep putting Me off? At that moment the charming music stopped, [and] the company I was with vanished from my sight; there remained Jesus and I. I took a seat by my dear sister, pretending to have a headache in order to cover up what took place in my soul. After a while I slipped out unnoticed, leaving my sister and all my companions behind and made my way to the Cathedral of Saint Stanislaus Kostka.

    If that is the incident, then I see nothing wrong with that because even in the stations of the cross it says that Jesus is stripped of his clothes. It doesn't mean that she saw Him naked. Just that he was stripped of his clothes - which is what really did happen to Jesus.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #10 on: May 06, 2012, 11:04:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alex
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Alex
    What impure images are you talking about?


    She claimed to have had visions of Christ being "unclad".

    Quote
    As for rambling to the priest, all the saints told about their visions to their spiritual confessor.


    Did they spend hours in the confessional rambling about it and ticking their priest off?


    Where do you get all this info from please.


    I watched a docuмentary-type movie of her once, though I had known of her rambling to priests in the confessional before I watched it (and yes, the docuмentary was made by Catholics).

    It's also rather interesting that JPII was the one who canonized her and made Divine Mercy a well-known practice amongst NO Catholics.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #11 on: May 06, 2012, 11:10:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As for focusing on the mercy of God, we have many devotions that only focus on one attribute of God. For instance, we religious orders and devotiosn who focus on the Childhood of Jesus only. We have devotions and religious orders that focus on the Holy Face of Jesus. So just because a devotions just focuses on one aspect of God's attributes, it does not mean that there is an abandonment of the other attributes. We have feast day to honor the Sacred Heart of Jesus. We have feast day to honor the Passion of Jesus. We have a feast day to honor Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. We have a feast day to honor the birth of Jesus, etc.... So why can't we have a feast day to honor the Mercy of Jesus. Doesn't mean we are ignoring all the other things - just that this particular devotion is set aside for one of the many attributes of God.

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 11:11:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Alex
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Alex
    What impure images are you talking about?


    She claimed to have had visions of Christ being "unclad".

    Quote
    As for rambling to the priest, all the saints told about their visions to their spiritual confessor.


    Did they spend hours in the confessional rambling about it and ticking their priest off?


    Where do you get all this info from please.


    I watched a docuмentary-type movie of her once, though I had known of her rambling to priests in the confessional before I watched it (and yes, the docuмentary was made by Catholics).

    It's also rather interesting that JPII was the one who canonized her and made Divine Mercy a well-known practice amongst NO Catholics.


    It was her spiritual director who told her to write down all her visions that came to be her diary.

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 11:12:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not that I follow the Divine Mercy, mind you. But if I did, I would see nothing about it that goes against the Catholic faith.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    What do SSPX members think of the Divine Mercy image and chaplet?
    « Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 10:34:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Faustina Kowalska was functionally illiterate, which is why she didn't keep a diary.
    The "diary" we have today was written by her fellow nuns after she died. It went through more than one revision, which they call "translation," since the version that had been submitted in 1958 met with objections under Pope John XXIII, and was forbidden to be published, and it was suppressed, along with the practice of the Divine Mercy Chaplet and the public display of the "heartless" Jesus pictures.

    That was then and this is now.

    After Vatican II, there is no longer any prohibition on publishing bad books. There is no more "Index" of forbidden books. Imprimaturs are practically non-existent. Anyone can preach, teach or proselytize as they wish. The only restrictions to be found has been that Sister Lucia of Fatima was silenced, and the SSPX bishops were excommunicated. Everything else is fair game.

    It's an example of Diabolical Disorientation.

    From a comment on Amazon page "Diary: Divine Mercy in My Soul [Paperback]
    Maria Faustina Kowalska" :

    Quote
    ...I encourage all who read this to explore and seek the truth and act upon the words of St. Faustina and follow the path to Medjugorje...


    If her diary were a recreational drug, you could say it would be a "gateway drug."

    I have known traditional Catholics who claim to have received graces and consolations by reciting the Divine Mercy Chaplet. One of them explained that a local, independent Traditional Latin Mass priest who had announced that Divine Mercy Sunday would be celebrated from then on (the year JPII established it), later dropped the practice because too many of his Mass faithful complained that they find Divine Mercy Sunday objectionable, that it promotes the presumption of God's mercy, and it detracts from the necessity of penance and the sacrificial nature of the Mass. Nonetheless, he did not prohibit a group, mostly Filipinos, from staying in the chapel after Mass on Sundays to pray the Chaplet.

    Like other modern practices these days, the Divine Mercy practice does not have the effect of bringing Catholics together in harmony. It seems to be divisive, inasmuch as those in favor of it also favor the New Mass (Novus Ordo) and those opposed usually favor the Traditional Latin Mass. This also has the effect of making the TLM folks seem characterized by their opposition to something, rather than by their positive adherence to the Faith of our fathers.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.