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Author Topic: What Caused Vatican II?  (Read 1108 times)

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Offline Louis Bernard

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What Caused Vatican II?
« on: March 25, 2021, 02:21:14 PM »
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    • I would like to make this thread a discussion that focuses on some of the causes of Vatican II. As many have already pointed out, the apostasy caused by the council was accepted by the vast majority of Bishops, Priests, and laity alike. Therefore there must have been a paving of the way so to speak. Please feel free to list any general principles or discuss anything regarding the details.


    I’ll start with a general list of my observations and elaborate later on in more detail.

    1. Inability to cope with globalized and increasingly secular societies

    2. Inability to properly reconcile faith and science.

    3. Biblical criticism

    4. The ecuмenical movement

    5. The pervasiveness of Kantian skepticism and a general existential nihilism propelled by Modernistic philosophy

    6. Industrialization, an increase in the general knowledge of the population, and mass printing

    7. The teaching of an implicit Baptism of Desire which paves the way for an Origenistic mutation of universal salvation

    8. General philosophical & religious decadence and stagnation in Catholic intellectual circles

    9. A breakdown of traditional social structure

    10. A breakdown of traditional moral principles


    I think that Vatican II was caused by the above while simultaneously viewing itself  as a solution. Ultimately it failed to address these issues in an appropriate manner and the result has been that these issues have become saturated in the post-conciliar ecclesiastical world and by extension in the laity as well.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #1 on: March 25, 2021, 02:46:58 PM »
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    • If started with Descartes subjectivism, which blossomed, and then it expanded with Kant.

    Bishop Williamson rightly identifies subjectivism as the root cause.

    Subjectivism in turn led to a resurgence of Pelagianism, which then blended with the subjectivism.

    These then are tied in with subjectivist soteriology, which then leads to a new ecclesiology.

    Then, there were development in the world, such as the "Enlightenment," which sought to supplant faith with reason, introducing a science which eliminated efficient and final causes from consideration, and therefore intentionally blocked out God.

    I believe that the moral and societal collapse came AFTER Vatican II (for the most part) ... the great 60s cultural ʀɛʋօʟutιօn.  I attribute that to the lack of grace coming into the world due to the disastrous effects of Vatican II.

    Unfortunately, Pope Pius XII was a bit too enamored of the world and contributed to these movements taking root in the Church.

    Of course, there were INFILTRATORS (Masonic/Illuminati and Communist) all over the Church hierarchy that pulled the strings on this revolution.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #2 on: March 25, 2021, 02:51:00 PM »
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    • Anne Catherine Emmerich attributes all this decay to the machinations of "the sect".

    We had the French Revolution, and the principles behind America as well, those of religious freedom, separation of Church and state, etc.

    Then the sect infiltrated the Church; their fingerprints are all over Vatican II, with their liberte, fraternite, egalite  (Religious Liberty, Ecuмenism, emphasis on the priesthood of the laity, lay participation, and collegiality).

    It's easy to see from Vatican II that "an enemy hath done this."
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2021, 02:56:18 PM »
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    • The malice of the clergy who hated God and (((television and movies and pop culture))) and schools and evolution.
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    Offline DustyActual

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2021, 03:00:07 PM »
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    • I think Bishop Williamson said that the Church has been going downhill since the 1300s or 1400s. My priest told me that many of the bishops who were appointed before vatican 2, were made bishops because they were yes-men.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2021, 04:01:21 PM »
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    • Catholics were adapting to the world, especially the religious!
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #6 on: March 25, 2021, 08:46:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Louis Bernard on March 25, 2021, 02:21:14 PM
    7. The teaching of an implicit Baptism of Desire which paves the way for an Origenistic mutation of universal salvation
    This one sentence fragment sums it up better than I've ever seen it stated anywhere else.

    This is, after all, what it has come down to --- everyone believes that the whole world is saved, and that all men of good will (or even if they are not of good will) are "in the Church".  Extra ecclesiam nulla salus has become utterly meaningless.

    Traditional Catholics are, of course, excluded from this "everyone".  Aside from us, only the more extreme of biblically fundamentalist Christians think that anyone can possibly be damned to hell for all eternity. 
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #7 on: March 26, 2021, 04:21:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on March 25, 2021, 04:01:21 PM
    Catholics were adapting to the world, especially the religious!
    After Vatican 2 the majority of Catholics in the Western Nations became completely converted to adapting to the world.
    And it was caused by the force changes in the church in which have divided Catholics to this day.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #8 on: March 26, 2021, 05:31:47 PM »
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    • The Beast of Revelation. Or is it the Dragon? Satan, under any name. His city is called Babylon, and the Whore who apes the Bride of Christ, Our Mother, the Church. 

    It "rose from the sea" boldly with its scaly head in the Church around the time of the Borgia and Medici. Don't be deceived with the latest garb, and don't think too longingly about the better pre-V2 "good old days." 

    The Money Power. Mammon. It destroyed old Israel, Jєωry, and surrounds the camp of the saints (Apocalypse 20 etc.).  

    I searched "usury" on the forum. This is a good start:

    Usury and sơdơmy - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #9 on: March 26, 2021, 09:56:04 PM »
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    • The loss of the Powers of the Most Precious Blood. Power is in the Blood.  

    Martin Luther= no ordinations needed, no Blood. And evolution, get rid of God.

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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #10 on: March 26, 2021, 10:13:31 PM »
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    • Embarrassment, IMO. Weak bishops with a lack of spine were embarrassed that Protestants and secularists alike saw them as backwards and conservative, and they wanted to show the world that the Church could be "cool" and "with the times" too. They also thought that helping keep the Church modern would entice the youth to stick around, and stem the tide of an already growing apostasy.

    Sadly for them though, abandoning the Faith for the purposes of saving the Faith is inherently self-defeating, and all their efforts did more damage than they ever could've imagined. The Church never stopped facing criticism for being backwards, as they hoped, and the Great Apostasy continued, against their best wishes. Compromising core principles never does end well.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #11 on: March 27, 2021, 07:09:36 AM »
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    • This should remind of Vatican II. And more recently Amoris Laetitia. It goes way back.


    Quote
    The Jesuit approach (or, more fairly, a prominent and pervasive Jesuit approach) has always been to downplay and subjectivize the moral law as a way of making the Church seem more familiar and appealing to non-Catholics, especially Protestants. From this point of view, if pervasive everyday practice is contrary to the moral law as traditionally understood then what has to change is our understanding and application of the moral law, to accommodate everyday practice and get these people into the spiritual and sacramental life of the Church.  The important thing is Catholic unity, and if the moral law is a cause of disunity then that implies a problem with our understanding of or application of the moral law.  What is important is how people actually live, not the abstract moral demands of the Gospel.

    Jesuits have been doing this for centuries, and the fruits of this approach are manifest. We are all Jesuits now.

    Zippy Catholic | "This is to show the world that I can paint like Titian. Only technical details are missing." – Wolfgang Pauli, caption for a blank page (wordpress.com)

    And:

    Quote
    The Jesuit Order (‘Society of Jesus’), founded in 1540 by St. Ignatius de Loyola, was erected to combat the appeal of Protestantism. […] The Scholastic doctrine of ‘just price’ was rejected out of hand as all-too-divine, the Jesuits arguing that value is a human affair and was determined by natural human interaction on markets. They followed much the same line on money and inflation. On moral defenses of usury and profit, the Jesuits were eager to reform Catholic doctrine to bring it more in line with current practice, to ease their efforts to overcome the resistance of Protestant towns to re-catholicization.







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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #12 on: March 27, 2021, 09:44:35 AM »
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    • Whatever caused it, could cause it again -- WITHIN TRADITION. Just look at the SSPX.

    If Catholics in the 50's could fall for it -- they had daily TLM at their local parishes within walking distance -- you better believe the Faithful at "Traditional Mass chapels" nationwide could fall for the same thing. They're not exempt.


    We still have the world, the flesh, and the devil.
    We still have the tendency to take the easier path.
    We still have the desire to fit in, be mainstream, and not "stand out", be called names ("conspiracy theorist", "rebel", "schismatic", "radical").
    We are still surrounded by "our separated brethren" I mean heretics. USA is still a Protestant-dominated country.
    We are MORE of a slave to convenience, impatience, etc.
    We are LESS educated than those in the 50's, with less common sense.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #13 on: March 27, 2021, 09:57:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on March 27, 2021, 09:44:35 AM
    Whatever caused it, could cause it again -- WITHIN TRADITION. Just look at the SSPX.

    If Catholics in the 50's could fall for it -- they had daily TLM at their local parishes within walking distance -- you better believe the Faithful at "Traditional Mass chapels" nationwide could fall for the same thing. They're not exempt.


    We still have the world, the flesh, and the devil.
    We still have the tendency to take the easier path.
    We still have the desire to fit in, be mainstream, and not "stand out", be called names ("cօռspιʀαcʏ theorist", "rebel", "schismatic", "radical").
    We are still surrounded by "our separated brethren" I mean heretics. USA is still a Protestant-dominated country.
    We are MORE of a slave to convenience, impatience, etc.
    We are LESS educated than those in the 50's, with less common sense.
    I think this is where you need to distinguish between what men can do vs what the Magisterium can do.  Yes, men can sin and do all sorts of things.  But the Magisterium can't go off the rails as it did at Vatican II.  The two are not the same.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Project Artichoke

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    Re: What Caused Vatican II?
    « Reply #14 on: March 27, 2021, 06:55:20 PM »
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    • Anytime the Jєωs are allowed to coexist with Christians, a Vatican II is inevitable.
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