Author Topic: Were the Apostles Water Baptized? (Read 2033 times)

Santo Subito · « **on:** February 07, 2012, 06:21:33 PM »

Christ never water baptized anyone during His lifetime. Thus the apostles were never water baptized. Thus they all went to Hell as non-Christians who died in original sin.

Does a strict "Outside Water Baptism No Salvation" person want to explain this to me? Thanks. :detective:

Matto · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2012, 06:25:33 PM »

Of course the apostles were baptized. If Christ did not baptize them, they baptized each other. Why would you ever think they would have neglected to be baptized when they went around the world baptizing converts?

Santo Subito · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2012, 06:31:27 PM »

How could they baptize each other if Christ never baptized any of them to begin with? Shouldn't this sacrament come from Christ Himself? And how could He have ordained non-water baptized men, giving them power to forgive sins?

If Christ baptized any of the apostles, that seems like a pretty significant event that would have made the Canon, correct? Why isn't it in there?

Matto · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2012, 06:36:15 PM »

All of the sacraments were instituted by Christ. The institution of some of the sacraments is not covered in the scriptures. When Christ instituted the sacrament of baptism, who did he baptize? I would guess the apostles. By the way, I believe in BOD and BOB.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2012, 07:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

How could they baptize each other if Christ never baptized any of them to begin with? Shouldn't this sacrament come from Christ Himself? And how could He have ordained non-water baptized men, giving them power to forgive sins?

If Christ baptized any of the apostles, that seems like a pretty significant event that would have made the Canon, correct? Why isn't it in there?

I attached an excerpt from the well known manual of Canon Herve, Volume III, Paris 1935. It is at least rash to conclude that the Apostles were not baptized, contrary to tradition and the teaching of the Fathers.

St. Augustine stresses the very point you make in his epistle 44:

Quote

"Again, how could they receive the Eucharist if not previously baptized?"

PS: Of course, I do "believe in BOD"...

songbird · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:18:41 PM »

When the Holy Ghost came down to the apostles, Our Lady, and it is said 125 in number were present. St John the baptist said that the Holy Ghost would come unto them as well as fire. So, all those present in the Upper Room, received all the Gifts of the Holy Ghost and that included baptism. They were given all the gifts necessary to spread the Faith. Even when St John the Baptist was in the womb, there is the opinion that when the Holy Ghost came to Elizabeth the baby lept in her womb he was then w/o original sin.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2012, 10:41:14 AM »

Saint John the Baptist baptized thousands of people, and also baptized Christ as an example to everyone that -everyone- should be baptized. The apostles DID baptize huge groups of people as demonstrated here:

http://drbo.org/chapter/51002.htm

Specifically here:

Now when they had heard these things, they had compunction in their heart, and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles: What shall we do, men and brethren? But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation.

They therefore that received his word, were baptized; and there were added in that day about three thousand souls. And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: many wonders also and signs were done by the apostles in Jerusalem, and there was great fear in all. And all they that believed, were together, and had all things common. Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.

And here:

http://drbo.org/chapter/51010.htm

Not to all the people, but to witnesses preordained by God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he arose again from the dead; And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is he who was appointed by God, to be judge of the living and of the dead. To him all the prophets give testimony, that by his name all receive remission of sins, who believe in him. While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word. And the faithful of the circuмcision, who came with Peter, were astonished, for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also.

For they heard them speaking with tongues, and magnifying God. Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Pay specific attention to this:

http://drbo.org/chapter/51019.htm

And it came to pass, while Apollo was at Corinth, that Paul having passed through the upper coasts, came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples. And he said to them: Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? But they said to him: We have not so much as heard whether there be a Holy Ghost. And he said: In what then were you baptized? Who said: In John's baptism.

The disciples specifically stated that they were baptized "In John's baptism." What do you believe that means?

songbird · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:35:50 AM »

Christ baptized with His Precious Blood and the Water that gushed from His side. All the sacraments have Him! Remember: Unless you eat of the Son of God and drink His Blood, you can not have life within you. We can not abide. This was hard for people to understand, for it is a mystery and nothing is impossible with God. Peter still did not understand, but he knew Christ was the Son of God. He remained and followed.
Now, imagine, if the people you love can have their souls taken, how would you, help them. They need strength and power to fight temptation. After this example of baptism, Christ went to the desert. So, we are given the Graces we need to fight off the devil with Christ's powers of the Precious Blood. It is the Perfect Gift that pleases the Father. This Power of the Precious Blood is so strong and so beautiful in those who are reborn. It is so strong that the enemy wants it destroyed. Not Chapter 12 of Daniel, "The Eternal Sacrifice will end! The New Order, not Catholic, no powers, is almost completely taking over. BUT a remnant will remain. His Church will reign and Our Lady's immaculate Heart will reign as well. we will go through persecution. It almost reminds me of the "Never Ending Story". The NOTHING takes over and leaves the little boy with just a spark of fantasia. If only the hearts of people, their souls would come to realize this power! They should run for it! Beg for His Precious Blood. St. Gaspar found the Precious Blood Group and this Confraternity was brought to the USA and flourished til it too was destroyed leaving no powers. My Great-Great Uncle was a priest of the Precious Blood Society and his mission was to teach of these powers!

songbird · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:49:55 AM »

What is meant In John's Baptism: Apparently disciples of S. John the Baptist, who believed in Christ from his testimony, had received no further instruction, no any baptism but John's. Again John's was a fore shadowing of what was to come, example. Disciples were present as well as apostles in the Upper Room.

songbird · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:51:08 AM »

It is nice to have a "Comprehensive Catholic Commentary". It takes the guess work out. they cost but are great to have.

Sigismund · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2012, 09:53:02 PM »

Santo,

Why are you so sure that Christ never baptized anyone?

And why could an apostle not baptize without being baptized first? A pagan can baptize validly if he intends what the Church intends, no?

Retablo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2012, 10:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

...Thus the apostles were never water baptized. Thus they all went to Hell as non-Christians who died in original sin...

Well that would certainly take the Sedevacantist discussion in new and exciting directions, wouldn't it?

Darcy · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:20:05 PM »

Most of the Apostles were martyred.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2012, 04:28:16 AM »

Some apostles used to be John's disciples before joining Jesus. Isn't it in the Bible?

TKGS · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2012, 06:46:33 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

Christ never water baptized anyone during His lifetime. Thus the apostles were never water baptized.

I wonder how anyone can assert these statements as fact. How does Santo Subito know that Christ never water baptized anyone during His lifetime? How does Santo Subito know the apostles were never water baptized?

This is the standard fare of the Modernists. They assert a "well-known fact" that isn't well-known at all and is, actually, far from factual, and then condemn true religion or invent new theology/practice based on that "fact".

Most of us have probably heard about how many Modernists, critical of any miracle, tell us how Christ didn't really multiply the loaves and fishes, but preached so effectively that those who brought a sack lunch shared with those who didn't. And this is preached by many Conciliar priests as "fact".

The practice of Communion in the hand came about because of the "fact" that Communion was always given in the hand in the early Church. Of course, the writings of the Fathers of the Church and early letters of the saints seem to suggest this is not actually true (but don't clearly and unambiguously say it isn't), but that didn't stop the sacrilege from becoming widespread.

I've started hearing (in Novus Ordo circles) about Deaconesses in the early Church. Is this a prelude to women's ordination? Perhaps.

Conciliarists frequently invent histories in order to justify their peccadilloes. I thank the Almighty God for giving us Pope St. Pius X who warned us of this tactic of the Modernists.