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Offline Against the Heresies

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Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
« on: July 21, 2021, 11:44:11 AM »
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    • Link to German original:
    https://fsspx.de/de/news-events/news/stellungnahme-der-distriktoberen-zum-motu-proprio-%E2%80%9Etraditionis-custodes%E2%80%9C-67598

    Slightly revised automatic translation (with DeepL):

    Quote
    On July 16, 2021, the Holy See published the motu proprio "Traditionis custodes" withdrawing the "release" of the ancient liturgy. We have perceived this new motu proprio of Pope Francis and the accompanying letter to the members of the world episcopate with great concern and with deep pain. The crisis of the Church has thus reached a new climax.
     
    The Priestly Society of St. Pius X. was founded to preserve the treasure of tradition. It finds its most beautiful expression in the time-honored form of the liturgy. In the face of these drastic and destructive measures, our community renews its unbroken fidelity to the Tradition of the Church and to the Roman Rite.
     
    In 1985, the Priestly Society of St. Pius X. addressed the following words to Pope John Paul II.:
    “Since we are convinced that the return to the traditional Roman Mass will be a source of rich graces for the renewal of the Church, we respectfully ask you, with filial confidence, that every priest be given the freedom to use the missal and liturgical books that were in force in 1962.”
     
    In 2007, Pope Benedict XVI allowed the traditional liturgy to be freely practiced. In the 14 years since Summorum Pontificuм, countless priests and faithful have rediscovered the depth of tradition and learned to appreciate it. The Priestly Society of St. Pius X. is indebted to Pope Benedict XVI. for his courageous step. Likewise, it thanks Pope Francis for granting or making possible the ordinary jurisdiction of confession and marriage to our priests.
     
    We have received Pope Francis' new motu proprio and the accompanying letter to the members of the world episcopate with great concern and with deep pain. The crisis of the Church has thus reached a new height. The attitude that our venerated founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre (1905- 1991) took toward the Second Vatican Council and the reforms that followed it is sadly confirmed by these measures of the Pope.
     
    The worldwide flourishing of the ancient rite, a thorn in the side of so many progressives in the Church, is inconceivable without this 20th century Athanasius. We repeat with firm conviction what Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre already formulated in a declaration of principles in 1974:
    “No authority, not even the highest in the hierarchy, can force us to abandon or diminish our Catholic Faith, so clearly expressed and professed by the Church’s Magisterium for nineteen centuries. [...] It is impossible to modify profoundly the lex orandi - 'the liturgy' - without modifying the lex credenda - 'the law of faith'.”
     
    The old liturgy is an expression of the faith handed down. It is obviously to be eliminated because it does not fit the new faith. The blow against the traditional liturgy is therefore a blow against the traditional faith.
     
    The Priestly Society of St. Pius X has no other goal than the unabridged proclamation. Archbishop Lefebvre writes in his "1974 Declaration":
     “The only attitude of faithfulness to the Church and Catholic doctrine, in view of our salvation, is a categorical refusal to accept this Reformation. That is why, without any spirit of rebellion, bitterness or resentment, we pursue our work of forming priests, with the timeless Magisterium as our guide. We are persuaded that we can render no greater service to the Holy Catholic Church, to the Sovereign Pontiff and to posterity.”
     
    As sons of the Holy, Catholic and Roman Church who wish to work for the establishment of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, we ask the Vicar of Christ to withdraw the recent measures.
     
     
    The District Superiors

    Father Stefan Pfluger
    Father Stefan Frey
    Father Thibaud Favre

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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #1 on: July 21, 2021, 12:07:50 PM »
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    • Hmm.  

    Not great/not terrible, but I was hoping for something more, I guess.  

    Minimally, I hoped it would be made clear that, the mask having fallen, and the hostility of Rome toward Tradition, a practical accord is absolutely out of the question.

    Also interesting to note the alleged “good intentions” imputed to BXVI in issuing SP (also present in Fr. Puga’s sermon), which in declaring the TLM never abrogated, went on to abrogate it, set conditions for attending or saying it, declared his intention to “enrich it” with elements of the NOM, and demoted it by subordinating its to the new Mass.

    On the contrary, others (like Ferrara at Tge Remnant) now see the intention was subversive all along:

    The intent was always to divide and pull Catholics away from doctrinally traditional priests.  

    The only thing different under Francis, is that he can’t even tolerate the “smell and bells” of tradition entering the churches, hence the recent MP.

    So it’s a bit strange to see the SSPX still fawning over BXVI’s SP, when that man was every bit as intent upon reconciling the SSPX with V2 as Francis is. 
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #2 on: July 21, 2021, 12:09:21 PM »
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    • Yep, it sure is a wimpy letter.  

    Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 21, 2021, 12:07:50 PM
    Hmm.  

    Not great/not terrible, but I was hoping for something more, I guess. 
    Same here.
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    Offline Against the Heresies

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 12:27:47 PM »
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    • They talk about a new climax of the Church crisis (which is true) and then artfully thank the authors of this crisis. What is more, they give thanks for things that are unjustly withheld from the faithful by the popes.
    When the crisis has not yet reached this new climax, Msgr. Lefebvre already spoke of "The See of Peter and the posts of authority in Rome being occupied by anti-Christs..." (Letter to the future Bishops, 1987). Do we thank them now?
     
    They do not find a word or a theological assessment of the extremely serious wiping away of the entire liturgical tradition of the Church by the Pope.
     
    They are silent on the Pope's clearly formulated plan to force everyone into the unworthy new mass and into complete submission to the post-conciliar magisterium.
     
    What they do care about, however, is the request that the Pope might yet reopen the playground for the semi-conservatives (old Mass, but with complete acceptance of the Council).
     
    Disappointing!
     
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #4 on: July 21, 2021, 12:29:38 PM »
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    • But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.
    Douay Rheims
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #5 on: July 21, 2021, 12:32:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 21, 2021, 12:07:50 PM
    Hmm.  

    Not great/not terrible, but I was hoping for something more, I guess.  

    Minimally, I hoped it would be made clear that, the mask having fallen, and the hostility of Rome toward Tradition, a practical accord is absolutely out of the question.

    Also interesting to note the alleged “good intentions” imputed to BXVI in issuing SP (also present in Fr. Puga’s sermon), which in declaring the TLM never abrogated, went on to abrogate it, set conditions for attending or saying it, declared his intention to “enrich it” with elements of the NOM, and demoted it by subordinating its to the new Mass.

    On the contrary, others (like Ferrara at Tge Remnant) now see the intention was subversive all along:

    The intent was always to divide and pull Catholics away from doctrinally traditional priests.  

    The only thing different under Francis, is that he can’t even tolerate the “smell and bells” of tradition entering the churches, hence the recent MP.

    So it’s a bit strange to see the SSPX still fawning over BXVI’s SP, when that man was every bit as intent upon reconciling the SSPX with V2 as Francis is.

    Apologies:

    It is not Chris Ferrara at the Remnant, but those operating the La Porte Latine SSPX French District website and Pope Francis himself who deny the alleged good intentions of BXVI's Summorum Pontificuм:

    "Unity behind the Second Vatican Council
    The pope intends to eradicate all pockets of resistance to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. This was, he admits, the goal of the motu proprio of 1988 and 2007; since their implementation has instead strengthened positions that lead to "doubting the Council,"[3] Pope Francis is putting an end to the experiment. The groups that will still be allowed to celebrate according to the old rite will have to certify that they "do not exclude the validity and legitimacy of the liturgical reform, of the precepts of the Second Vatican Council and of the Magisterium of the Supreme Pontiffs,"[4] thus adhering to the Council and to the post-conciliar Magisterium."

    https://laportelatine.org/docuмents/crise-eglise/ecclesiadeisme/le-pape-francois-restreint-lusage-de-la-messe-traditionnelle

    It seems some in the SSPX still haven't been able to come to terms with the fact that BXVI was their enemy.
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    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #6 on: July 21, 2021, 01:44:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 21, 2021, 12:32:03 PM


    It seems some in the SSPX still haven't been able to come to terms with the fact that BXVI was their enemy.
    Too many souls have not perceived that B16
    Was a Modernist, immersed in Hegelianischste diabolism ( for such German philosophies have their germination in Hell, then to blossom into the diseased minds prepared for them by those willfully abandoning God.)
    The Indulterians were easily seduced by the Dank side of the Faith.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 03:39:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Against the Heresies on July 21, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
    Link to German original:
    https://fsspx.de/de/news-events/news/stellungnahme-der-distriktoberen-zum-motu-proprio-%E2%80%9Etraditionis-custodes%E2%80%9C-67598

    fsspx.de says: Access denied!

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #8 on: July 21, 2021, 04:21:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 21, 2021, 12:07:50 PM
    So it’s a bit strange to see the SSPX still fawning over BXVI’s SP, when that man was every bit as intent upon reconciling the SSPX with V2 as Francis is.

    They aren't Traditional. They don't believe in the Crisis in the Church, they don't believe in the Freemasonic infiltration, etc.

    If you don't have full knowledge/awareness of the nature of the Crisis, you aren't likely to end up joining the Traditional movement. You are more likely to be some sort of "conservative". That is what we see with the left-wing priests in the neo-SSPX today.

    If you don't have proper knowledge of the world (the Church in this case), the way things really work, etc. -- if you aren't Red Pilled -- you're going to get ALL SORTS of things wrong. Hence the topic of this thread.
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    Offline Against the Heresies

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    Re: Weak statement of the district superiors of Austria, Germany and Switzerland
    « Reply #9 on: July 21, 2021, 11:02:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on July 21, 2021, 03:39:26 PM
    fsspx.de says: Access denied!

    You can still view the side in the Google-Cache:

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:987wIaFsvrkJ:https://fsspx.de/de/news-events/news/stellungnahme-der-distriktoberen-zum-motu-proprio-%25E2%2580%259Etraditionis-custodes%25E2%2580%259C-67598+&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=at


    On the purpose of docuмentation
    Quote
    Stellungnahme der Distriktoberen
    zum Motu proprio „Traditionis custodes

    Am 16. Juli 2021 veröffentlichte der Heilige Stuhl das Motu proprio „Traditionis custodes“, mit der die „Freigabe“ der alten Liturgie zurückgenommen wird. Dieses neue Motu proprio von Papst Franziskus und den dazugehörigen Brief an die  Mitglieder des Weltepiskopats haben wir mit großer Sorge und mit tiefem Schmerz wahrgenommen. Die Krise der Kirche hat damit einen neuen Höhepunkt erreicht.

     
    Die Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. wurde gegründet, den Schatz der Tradition zu erhalten. Er findet seinen schönsten Ausdruck in der altehrwürdigen Form der Liturgie. Unsere Gemeinschaft erneuert angesichts dieser drastischen und zerstörerischen Maßnahmen ihre ungebrochene Treue zur Überlieferung der Kirche und zum Römischen Ritus.

    Im Jahr 1985 richtete die Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. folgende Worte an Papst Johannes Paul II.
    Da wir davon überzeugt sind, dass die Rückkehr zur überlieferten römischen Messe eine Quelle reicher Gnaden für die Erneuerung der Kirche sein wird, bitten wir Sie respektvoll und mit kindlichem Vertrauen, dass jedem Priester die Freiheit gegeben werde, das Messbuch und die liturgischen Bücher zu benutzen, die im Jahr 1962 in Kraft waren.

    2007 ermöglichte Papst Benedikt XVI der traditionellen Liturgie eine freie Ausübung. In den 14 Jahren seit Summorum Pontificuм haben zahllose Priester und Gläubige die Tiefe der Tradition wiederentdeckt und sie schätzen gelernt. Die Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. ist Papst Benedikt XVI. für seinen mutigen Schritt zu Dank verpflichtet. Ebenso dankt sie Papst Franziskus für die Erteilung bzw. Ermöglichung der ordentlichen Beicht- und Ehejurisdiktion an unsere Priester. 

    Das neue Motu proprio von Papst Franziskus und den dazugehörigen Brief an die Mitglieder des Weltepiskopats haben wir mit großer Sorge und mit tiefem Schmerz wahrgenommen. Die Krise der Kirche hat damit einen neuen Höhepunkt erreicht. Die Haltung, die unser verehrter Gründer Erzbischof Marcel Lefebvre (1905- 1991) gegenüber dem Zweiten Vatikanischen Konzil und den daran anschließenden Reformen eingenommen hat, wird durch diese Maßnahmen des Papstes auf traurige Weise bestätigt. 

    Das weltweite Aufblühen des alten Ritus, das so vielen Progressisten in der Kirche ein Dorn im Auge ist, ist ohne diesen Athanasius des 20. Jahrhundert nicht denkbar. Wir wiederholen mit fester Überzeugung, was Erzbischof Marcel Lefebvre schon in einer Grundsatzerklärung aus dem Jahr 1974 formuliert hat: 
    Keine Autorität, auch nicht die höchste Autorität in der Hierarchie, kann uns zwingen, unseren Glauben, der vom Lehramt der Kirche seit neunzehn Jahrhunderten eindeutig formuliert und verkündet wurde, aufzugeben oder zu schmälern. […] Man kann nicht tiefgreifende Veränderungen auf dem Gebiet der ‚lex orandi‘ – ‚der Liturgie‘ – vornehmen, ohne dadurch die ‚lex credendi‘ – ‚das Glaubensgesetz‘ – zu verändern.

    Die alte Liturgie ist Ausdruck des überlieferten Glaubens. Sie soll offensichtlich eliminiert werden, weil sie nicht zum neuen Glauben passt. Der Schlag gegen die überlieferte Liturgie ist daher ein Schlag gegen den überlieferten Glauben. 
    Die Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. hat kein anderes Ziel, als die unverkürzte Verkündigung. Erzbischof Lefebvre schreibt in seiner Grundsatzerklärung:
    Die einzige Haltung der Treue gegenüber der Kirche und der katholischen Lehre besteht, um unseres Heiles willen, in der kategorischen Weigerung der Annahme der Reform. Deshalb setzen wir unser Werk der priesterlichen Ausbildung unter dem Stern des Lehramtes aller Zeiten fort, ohne Bitterkeit, Rebellion oder Groll. Wir sind davon überzeugt, dass wir der heiligen katholischen Kirche, dem Papst und den zukünftigen Generationen keinen größeren Dienst erweisen können.

     Als Söhne der heiligen, katholischen und römischen Kirche, die für die Aufrichtung der Herrschaft Jesu Christi und für den Triumph des Unbefleckten Herzens Mariä wirken wollen, bitten wir den Stellvertreter Christi, die jüngsten Maßnahmen zurückzunehmen.
     
    Die Distriktoberen
     Pater Stefan Pfluger
     Pater Stefan Frey
     Pater Thibaud Favre
     
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