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Author Topic: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?  (Read 1173 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
« on: October 20, 2017, 12:52:52 PM »
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  • Did theologians during the Great Western (Papal) "Schism" doubt the validity of Masses in which the priest mentioned the name of an anti-pope during the una cuм prayer?
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    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 01:06:10 PM »
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  • I think theologically the priests and laity on all three "sides" got a pass on that issue, since the three claimants unlike today, believed, thought and spoke as true Catholics.  Today it is very cut and dry to know who is not a True Vicar of Christ. Unless one is obstinately deluding himself. But back in the 1300's the Faith was very strong and it was infinitely more difficult than it is right now to discern who was the True Pontiff. The fact is except for the anti-popes, no cleric and/or faithful was excommunicated for erroneously believing any of the three claimants at the time was the legitimate Vicar of Christ on earth.  St. Vincent Ferrer comes to mind.  


    Like I said, Today, the situation is crystal clear.
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 01:10:37 PM »
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  • the…claimants unlike today, believed, thought and spoke as true Catholics.
    Good point
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 01:18:46 PM »
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  • I think theologically the priests and laity on all three "sides" got a pass on that issue, since the three claimants unlike today, believed, thought and spoke as true Catholics.  Today it is very cut and dry to know who is not a True Vicar of Christ. Unless one is obstinately deluding himself. But back in the 1300's the Faith was very strong and it was infinitely more difficult than it is right now to discern who was the True Pontiff. The fact is except for the anti-popes, no cleric and/or faithful was excommunicated for erroneously believing any of the three claimants at the time was the legitimate Vicar of Christ on earth.  St. Vincent Ferrer comes to mind.  


    Like I said, Today, the situation is crystal clear.

    The situation is not crystal clear for thousands of devout little old ladies and a few old men who continue to gather together for the Rosary and are persecuted by certain priests for doing so. Pushed out of their local parish churches, they gather together at local cloistered monasteries where the nuns welcome them.

    They go along with the Vatican II New Church because they were raised Catholics and believe everything that comes from the mouths of their priests and Francis. They believe that they should not judge nor gossip.

    If anyone were to try to convert these old ones over to Catholic Traditionalism, these gray panthers would shake their old bony fingers and attack with the mantras instilled by Vatican II: Do not judge; do not try to be holier than the pope; and finally, do not be part of the problem, instead try to be part of the solution and pray.

    What can we do?  If anyone were to try to convert these ancient ones to Traditionalism, these ladies and gentlemen might lose their faith all together. They are so naive, and yes, gullible, but they remain firm in their belief that the pope can do no wrong, and that the gates of hell will not prevail.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 01:23:21 PM »
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  • What can we do?  If anyone were to try to convert these ancient ones to Traditionalism, these ladies and gentlemen might lose their faith all together. They are so naive, and yes, gullible, but they remain firm in their belief that the pope can do no wrong, and that the gates of hell will not prevail.
    That last part is true if you're talking about a true Pope and Catholic Church.
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 01:24:54 PM »
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  • That last part is true if you're talking about a true Pope and Catholic Church.

    However, these old ones venerate Francis as a true Pope. They do not know anything else.

    Trying to say anything contrary to what they believe results in the comment: Get behind me Satan.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 01:31:19 PM »
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  • However, these old ones venerate Francis as a true Pope. They do not know anything else.

    Trying to say anything contrary to what they believe results in the comment: Get behind me Satan.
    Well, may they receive God's grace and convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 01:34:34 PM »
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  • Well, may they receive God's grace and convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

    Where is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that they should convert to?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 01:35:40 PM »
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  • Did theologians during the Great Western (Papal) "Schism" doubt the validity of Masses in which the priest mentioned the name of an anti-pope during the una cuм prayer?
    If they doubted they might be guilty of Donatism which was a heresy that the effectiveness of the sacraments depends on the moral character of the minister.  It was proven they all had the faith in fact even Saints came from the different groups, I read.  

    Today it is a different story since it is obvious the Vatican is run by apostates.  
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    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 01:37:54 PM »
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  • Where is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that they should convert to?
    Quoting St. Athanasius:
    "Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 01:40:42 PM »
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  • Quoting St. Athanasius:
    "Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

    Can you provide an example of where these Catholics faithful to tradition would be, generally? (that they are supposed to convert to)
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 01:51:00 PM »
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  • Can you provide an example of where these Catholics faithful to tradition would be, generally? (that they are supposed to convert to)
    They are not in the Novus ordo sect. That is for sure.
    I invite you to learn more about the Catholic faith. You can begin by reading the OP and then juxtapose it with the times we live in.
    I have come to understand the more we spoon feed people the Truth, the more they prefer the comforts of their status quo.  
    No one wants to be inconvenienced.  So I encourage folks to do their own homework.
    It's quite simple: One cannot love someone they do not know.

    Matthew 7:13-14
    Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
    How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 01:53:40 PM »
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  • They are not in the Novus ordo sect. That is for sure.
    I invite you to learn more about the Catholic faith. You can begin by reading the OP and then juxtapose it with the times we live in.
    I have come to understand the more we spoon feed people the Truth, the more they prefer the comforts of their status quo.  
    No one wants to be inconvenienced.  So I encourage folks to do their own homework.
    Matthew 7:13-14
    Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
    How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

    As usual, sedevacantists avoid the obvious.

    You said that those Novus Ordo types have to convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Well, if they don't know where it is, how are they going to convert to it?

    Or is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church only a state of mind? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 02:00:53 PM »
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  • As usual, sedevacantists avoid the obvious.

    You said that those Novus Ordo types have to convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Well, if they don't know where it is, how are they going to convert to it?

    Or is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church only a state of mind?
    Catholics faithful to tradition, to validly ordained, Catholic priests and who cling to the deposit of Faith are not the ones avoiding the elephant in the room.
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jєω adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Was "Una cuм" an issue during the Great Western "Schism"?
    « Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 02:03:23 PM »
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  • Catholics faithful to tradition, to validly ordained, Catholic priests and who cling to the deposit of Faith are not the ones avoiding the elephant in the room.

    Okay, but I fail to see what that has to do with the question I keep asking.

    If the Novus Ordo types are to convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, where is it exactly? Or....is it just a state of mind? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29